TexasCHLforum.com

SlowDave wrote:Appreciate the general discussion, but don't know that I agree with your numbers. According to this source: ballistics by the inch, the 9mm in any load cannot compare to a good load out of the .357 mag. It doesn't have the round you are discussing (Corbon 110g), but other 9mm Corbon +P rounds from 90 to 125 gr have muzzle energies of 417 to 442 ft.lb out of a 4" barrel. (So close enough to your numbers.) The .357 mag on the other hand, from same 4" barrel, in Corbon bullet weights of 125 to 140 gr, have muzzle energies of 600 to 620 ft.lb. And note that there is a 110 gr Corbon .357 mag at only 403 ft.lb, but I wouldn't call that representative.

Interestingly, the same site provides 70 gr Pow'r Ball ammo from a 4" barrel in .380 as having muzzle energy of 239 ft.lb, so that's 49.5% of your 9mm number rather than "way under half".

Still, getting >400 ft.lb out of a 9mm is impressive, but let's not confuse that with the .357 mag. And for all you ballistics junkies, that site is super cool!

The .45 can't compare either. (This is from their 2008 testing.)

With a 4" barrel, the .45 had an average muzzle velocity of 386.5. The .357 Mag had an average muzzle velocity of 610, 1.5 times the muzzle energy of the .45. The .357 Sig is a better round as well. Its average muzzle velocity was 552. Not quite the velocity of the .357 Mag, but close and still 1.4 times the muzzle velocity of the .45. The 9mm was 361.5, so just 6% less than the .45. Of course, the king of them all is the .44 Magnum with an average muzzle velocity of 658.5. (But I don't think I'd want to shoot a 4" .44 Magnum pistol!)

Another thing that's fascinating is the wide variation in muzzle velocities with the same round. For example, the .44 Magnum varies from a low of 484 for CorBon 165gr JHP to a high of 834 for Federal 240gr Hydroshock JHP. The .45 varies from a low of 338 for the Federal 230gr Hi-Shok JHP to a high of 504 for CorBon 185gr JHP+. So the brand and type of cartridge can make a big difference in muzzle velocity. (The variation between those two Federal rounds is a real head scratcher.)

About a year ago, after poring over the numbers at BBTI and reading an article by Masaad Ayoob, I decided to make my P239 in .357 Sig my EDC. It's probably the best I can do in a handgun I can handle and shoot accurately.

In case someone hasn't given it that much thought, a 9mm bullet is just 3 thousandths of an inch smaller than a .357, which I find fascinating when reading discussions of calibers and how "weak" the 9mm supposedly is.

surprise_i'm_armed wrote:Let's recap this violent incident - 1 shot to the BG's abdomen by the officer. Probably a .40.

4 shots to the torso with a .45 - the Energizer bunny BG still keeps beating the LEO.

1 shot of .45 to the head to finally end this. It took 6 rounds of calibers starting with ."4" to end it. Really?

So - let's see a show of hands from the forum on who wants to move down in caliber to one of those cool .380's?

SIA

I don't have a .380, but I'll bet a head shot with the .380 would be fatal. I think the lesson here is that shooting once or twice may not be enough, no matter what caliber you're using. If you think the fact that a .45 didn't put him down without the head shot means that any smaller caliber is no good, then why not carry a .50 or .60 cal? Or just carry a bazooka? Seriously. Obviously the .45 wasn't good enough.

Or maybe we need to readjust our thinking and realize that handguns aren't one shot man killers.

The point is, don't stop shooting until the threat is neutralized, not never use anything but a .45.

I have no problem carrying my EDC .357 Sig or my 9mm. I'll probably never have a .45. I don't like them. I also don't like Glocks. So shoot me.

What nobody commented on was the fact that this guy shot a man five times who was grappling with the police officer, and every one of his shots hit the BG and not the officer and not a bystander. Kudos to the shooter for obviously having practiced a lot and for a steady hand in a scary situation. I don't know if I would have fired. I might have pistol whipped the BG instead. I'd have been very concerned about shooting the officer by mistake.