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Charles L. Cotton wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

Owens wrote:So who are these 2 turncoat senators? THEY need to be given the opportunity to obtain other employment.

Some things definitely need to be changed. This outcome is totally ridiculous. No reason for it to have happened this way.

I wonder though if we would say the same thing if we used some of the same tactics to stop something we don't like.

Senators Lucio and Gallegos. You also have some flaming hypocrites. Senator Zaffirini, who is vehemently opposed to campus carry, along with Lucio and Gallegos, voted for politicians to carry whereever they want. You can't rise to a higher level of hypocrisy than that.

What is Sen. Gallegos' track record for gun owners? Do you know? Do you care?

Chas.

What's his track record? He voted AGAINST campus carry and FOR legislators carrying. What else do I need to know?

I owe you an apology; I had just responded to an email about Sen. Hinajosa and was thinking about him; not Sen. Gallegos. "Chuy" has done a lot for us, not Gallegos.

Sorry,
Chas.

No, Charles, you don't owe me an apology. Our legislators do. I had a good conversation with one of Senator Hinajosa's staffers. I fully understand his position and the internal conflict he went through. Unlike Gallegos and Lucio, he didn't lie and then change his position.

Wentworth just brought SB 354 up for a vote to suspend. It was shot down again, 19-11. Write down the 11 names. They need to be gone. And so does Speaker Strauss.

Keith B wrote:I can see you have your mind made up and trying to talk to you about this would be So, just remember when you vote against a legislator who has a predominantly pro-gun stance and has a track record to prove it, you are more than likely killing your chances of getting ANY 2A legislation passed for future sessions.

And that would be different from this session how?

Keith B wrote:That is one of the most harmful things you could do. A legislature full of newbies with no clue how to handle bills would be a total catastrophy and you would get NOTHING passed. Everyone would be trying to get their own agendas through and there would be no long term realtionships (good OR bad), so no one would be partnering up to work through issues.

This is the kind of thinking that got us in the present situation. We don't need politicians running our legislature. We need citizens who serve briefly, and for the people. The argument that newly elected representatives can't get anything done is the product of politicians convincing the public that only someone who has served a long time can produce results. Nothing could be further from the truth. The truth is that the long-serving politicians are the ones who are screwing things up. Fresh blood and a steady turnover will keep them listening to the ones who elect them. If it takes a long time to become an effective legislator, than perhaps the PROCESS is screwed up and needs to be simplified?

Heartland Patriot wrote:All you folks talking about "clean-sweeping" better hold your darned horses and THINK. IF you really care about things like the Second Amendment, the right to self-defense, Castle Doctrine, and Concealed Carry, you darned well better THINK before you go voting for someone with a "D" instead of an "R" behind their name. Maybe once upon a time, there were those in that other party who held favorable viewpoints on the things I listed above, but that time has pretty much passed. Are there "bad actors" within the ranks of those who call themselves Republican? OBVIOUSLY...but why would I want to vote out someone who I agree with 75% or 80% of the time or more, to "teach them a lesson" just to help someone who I only agree with 10% of the time, or not at all? This state could end up like California, do you really want that? I sure as heck don't...I was stationed out there for a total of 10 years between two assignments, and I made darned sure the first day I could after I "retired" from active duty, I packed the family up and got our behinds back to Texas. Yeah, I'm pretty darned mad about this not going through, and I don't care for the back room stuff, either. But, there are a couple of folks, if we'd have had more solid people in certain seats instead of them, that could have made the difference in the FIRST place, when these bills were stand-alone. Once again, THINK...and target your efforts next time...and maybe we can finally get back some of the rights that belong to us law-abiding citizens. But we sure as the dickens won't if that other party wins a majority.

Now you're being silly. We're talking about throwing them out in the primaries. We're not stupid. Please don't treat us like we are.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

Owens wrote:So who are these 2 turncoat senators? THEY need to be given the opportunity to obtain other employment.

Some things definitely need to be changed. This outcome is totally ridiculous. No reason for it to have happened this way.

I wonder though if we would say the same thing if we used some of the same tactics to stop something we don't like.

Senators Lucio and Gallegos. You also have some flaming hypocrites. Senator Zaffirini, who is vehemently opposed to campus carry, along with Lucio and Gallegos, voted for politicians to carry whereever they want. You can't rise to a higher level of hypocrisy than that.

What is Sen. Gallegos' track record for gun owners? Do you know? Do you care?

Chas.

What's his track record? He voted AGAINST campus carry and FOR legislators carrying. What else do I need to know?

warhorse10_9 wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

warhorse10_9 wrote:baldeagle, I completely understand how upset you are, I am upset to. Instead of taking out your frustration on Senator Wentworth or other people who actually supported the bill the entire time. I would look at the people who didn't.

Why? There will always be opposition. Supporters aren't really supporters if they can't get it done. Results are what matter, not rhetoric. And the Republicans have utterly failed at producing results. Why, then, should they get a pass?

Again, I will bring up the point of the tables being turned. Are you saying that in the event the Republicans had a minority of seats that you would vote them out of office since they couldn't pass the legislation you wanted.

That is NOT what I am saying. The Republicans had the majority and couldn't get it done. What good are they? We might was well have 31 Democratic Senators.

warhorse10_9 wrote:[Senator Wentworth and other supporters did all they could to pass this legislation given the circumstances. You cannot stall the entire legislative session for one piece of legislation.

Sorry, but that's not true. The Republicans COULD have told the Dems, either this bill comes to a vote or none of yours will. 2/3rds works both ways. But the Republicans paid lip service to campus carry and CHOSE not to fight for it. Oh well, we didn't get it done just doesn't cut it any more. If you can't get it done, get the heck out of office and let someone who WILL get it done take over.

Again I ask, why did we elect Republicans to a majority? So they could get played by minority? Give me a break. I'm sick and tired of namby pamby politicans who claim they believe in things but don't have the guts to see them through.

warhorse10_9 wrote:baldeagle, I completely understand how upset you are, I am upset to. Instead of taking out your frustration on Senator Wentworth or other people who actually supported the bill the entire time. I would look at the people who didn't.

Why? There will always be opposition. Supporters aren't really supporters if they can't get it done. Results are what matter, not rhetoric. And the Republicans have utterly failed at producing results. Why, then, should they get a pass?

warhorse10_9 wrote:Also on the issue of the 2/3 rule in the senate I ask you to remember one principle: Majority Rule, Minority Rights. Though the 2/3 rule in the senate is irritating, how would you feel if the tables were turned?

How would I feel? Like the will of the people is being upheld. I may not like it when Democrats have the majority, but they have the majority because more people voted for them than for the candidates I supported. The minority should not be able to prevent the majority from exerting its will. That's why we have elections. If you don't like what the pols are doing, you replace them. But we don't vote for an overwhelming Republican majority so that the Dems can win. That's stupid. And so is the 2/3rds rule. Whatever idiot thought it up should be taken to the woodshed along with all the idiots that go along with it. But, so long as it is the rule, then the majority should make it work FOR them and not AGAINST them. Republicans are fools and idiots who cave in to the slightest pressure from the left. Meanwhile the left shoves things like Obamacare down our throats and says, what are you gonna do about it? Even if we throw them out of office, the Republicans will be too pansy to do anything substantial to change it.

This ain't rocket science, although the boobs in the legislature would like you to think so. Am I mad? You bet I am. I've spent a lifetime watching politicians erode the freedoms that I fought for and that my cousin and others I love died for. That sticks in my craw in a way that can't be described in words. This country is going down the tubes because the people have allowed these scoundrels to play their silly games without educating them on who is SUPPOSED to be in charge of this country - WE THE PEOPLE. It's time WE THE PEOPLE stood up and said ENOUGH!!

Owens wrote:So who are these 2 turncoat senators? THEY need to be given the opportunity to obtain other employment.

Some things definitely need to be changed. This outcome is totally ridiculous. No reason for it to have happened this way.

I wonder though if we would say the same thing if we used some of the same tactics to stop something we don't like.

Senators Lucio and Gallegos. You also have some flaming hypocrites. Senator Zaffirini, who is vehemently opposed to campus carry, along with Lucio and Gallegos, voted for politicians to carry whereever they want. You can't rise to a higher level of hypocrisy than that.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

baldeagle wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Sen. Wentworth is neither. The result would have been the same if SB5 have passed with campus-carry. The core germane rule was not the problem; the problem is the House rule against two totally different subject matters in the same bill. Although some portions of campus-carry were germane, it required extensive amendments to the Penal Code as well as amendments to Chp. 411 of the Gov't Code. Folks, when the two Senators went back on their word and didn't support suspending the rules to bring up SB354, then everything thereafter was Plan B, Plan C, . . .

Then Senator Wentworth is the worst kind of cynic. He never should have amended SB 5 and SB 1581 if he KNEW they would never make it through the House. He should have admitted defeat or continued to work to get the 21 votes.

I understand you are upset with the outcome; so am I. But you don't have a clue what you are saying or what else was being attempted. It was not a dead issue when campus-carry was as added to SB5 or SB1581. An attempt was made to make it work, but it failed. This happened to us last session when Tommy Merritt was chairman of the House Public Safety Committee. We had to add things to the DPS sunset bill to get them passed.

Sen. Wentworth has been a strong supporter of gun owners and he's been a champion of campus-carry for two sessions.

Chas.

Charles, I understand that you have to work with these jerks and so you can't say anything bad about them. I can. I'm a citizen of this state, and I deserve fair and open representation. Bills should get fair and open debate on the floor of the chamber, not back room deals and secret meetings and shenanigans with rules that we the citizens are not privy to.

We elected an overwhelming number of Republicans this last election. We SHOULD have gotten our issues passed. We didn't. That says all that I need to know about politics and the legislature. It's a foul, stinking mess of stuff not worthy of a republic and it needs to be overhauled if the people are ever to have their rights restored. The people who serve in the legislature should be embarrassed to show their faces in public after participating in this farce.

I won't be following any more of this. It invokes the gag reflex. How you can stand to be intimately involved in it is beyond me.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:Sen. Wentworth is neither. The result would have been the same if SB5 have passed with campus-carry. The core germane rule was not the problem; the problem is the House rule against two totally different subject matters in the same bill. Although some portions of campus-carry were germane, it required extensive amendments to the Penal Code as well as amendments to Chp. 411 of the Gov't Code. Folks, when the two Senators went back on their word and didn't support suspending the rules to bring up SB354, then everything thereafter was Plan B, Plan C, . . .

Then Senator Wentworth is the worst kind of cynic. He never should have amended SB 5 and SB 1581 if he KNEW they would never make it through the House. He should have admitted defeat or continued to work to get the 21 votes.

Some are saying we'll go at it again in 2013. Why? What's the point of continually beating your head against the wall? Either we throw the bums out or forget trying to get our freedoms back.

Some have cried for open carry and Constitutional carry. Good luck with that. We can't even get common sense carry.

RHenriksen wrote:Any feasible way to lose the2/3 rule?

Yes, and I offered it earlier. The Republicans hold the majority. All they had to do was tell the Democrats, either you vote to suspend the rules on campus carry or we will vote NOT to suspend the rules on every bill you offer until you DO vote to suspend the rules. But the Republicans didn't care about campus carry enough to put themselves on the line for it. For them it was a nice-to-have-but-not-totally-necessary issue.

That is what has me disgusted beyond belief. They believe they should be allowed to carry anywhere, yet we should not. That is the worst form of elitism, and they should all be voted out of office for it.

Clearly the Republicans are all hat and no cattle. They need to be replaced as well. And the rules of both the House and the Senate need to be changed so that bills cannot be killed without accountability. Otherwise, we will continue to suffer the loss of our rights.

RPB wrote:SB 5 passed with added amendments the Senate must approve else conference committee

SB 1581 busted for concealed carry and returned to Senate, but the fiscal matters in it can go in SB 1811, Villarreal says 1581 won't matter


There's more than a few pretty upset Republican Representatives on the floor

And we should care because???

If the Republicans have a supermajority and can't even get campus carry to a vote, then what good are they? We might as well have a supermajority of Democrats. I've spent the past few weeks closely following what goes on in our legislature. I'm done. What little respect I had (if any) for our system of government has been destroyed by watching the treacherous way these scumbags do business. Until we change the rules so that the legislatures become the people's house, nothing we want to see happen will ever happen unless it's politically advantageous to the scumbags in the legislature.