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Islands7

The Annoyed Man wrote:
Islands7 wrote:
Keith B wrote:And, BTW on your off-limits locaitons, you are not required to leave your CCW behind when going into a church unless it is 30.06 posted or you have recevied oral notification to not carry there.
OK, help me with this reading & yes I am new:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

You didn't read far enough. A few paragraphs further down, it says that a church, synagogue or other place of religious worship must post a 30.06 sign to keep CHL out, which means that the default position is that church carry is legal. Your instructor, if competent, should have pointed that out to you. In fact, a number of us not only carry in church, we carry on stage and in the pulpit in church.

EXCELLENT! .... and thank you two for a deeper understanding of how law is written, as well as real life carry practices.

Islands7

BrianSW99 wrote:The only requirement to secure a weapon that I'm aware of is in PC§46.13:

PC §46.13. MAKING A FIREARM ACCESSIBLE TO A CHILD.
(a) In this section:
(1) "Child" means a person younger than 17 years of age.
(2) "Readily dischargeable firearm" means a firearm that is
loaded with ammunition, whether or not a round is in the chamber.
(3) "Secure" means to take steps that a reasonable person would take to prevent the access to a readily dischargeable firearm by a child, including but not limited to placing a firearm in a locked container or temporarily rendering the firearm inoperable by a trigger lock or other means
(b) A person commits an offense if a child gains access to a readily dischargeable firearm and the person with criminal negligence:
(1) failed to secure the firearm; or
(2) left the firearm in a place to which the person knew or should have known the child would gain access.
(c) It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the child's access to the firearm:
(1) was supervised by a person older than 18 years of age and was for hunting, sporting, or other lawful purposes;
(2) consisted of lawful defense by the child of people or property;
(3) was gained by entering property in violation of this code; or
(4) occurred during a time when the actor was engaged in an ag-ricultural enterprise.
According to this statute, just keeping the gun in a locked vehicle, even a convertible with the top up, should meet these requirements as long as you don't give a child the key. If someone breaks into your vehicle, child or otherwise, it would be a defense to prosecution under this statute because that entry would be illegal (see red above). I don't see any other legal requirement to keep the weapon in any sort of locked container or secured area inside the vehicle because just being in a locked vehicle should meet the requirements of section (a)(3) above.

That said, I keep mine in a steel lock box secured under the seat when I have to leave it in the car. But, that's more to prevent it from being stolen in a smash and grab, not to meet any legal requirements.

Of course, usual disclaimers apply: IMHO, IANAL, etc...

Brian

EXCELLENT! .... and many thanks for the detailed refresher.

Islands7

I think this is finally going well, good directives from those more experienced.
I still need to post security vs. children (home, car, whatever) Texas law to gain equally good spotlighting & parsing.

Islands7

Keith B wrote:And, BTW on your off-limits locaitons, you are not required to leave your CCW behind when going into a church unless it is 30.06 posted or you have recevied oral notification to not carry there.

OK, help me with this reading & yes I am new:
PC §46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE
HOLDER.

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established
place of religious worship.

Security
Our concealed class taught that unsecured firearms that endanger a child will be dealt with via Texas law. I will try to find that & post, if interested. I would think this might have been stretched even to stolen guns later used in a crime but memory fails .....

Experience
Also note that if anyone has first hand experiences with real-world law enforcement consequences that dealt with convertibles vs. security or lack of security of concealed firearms, this would be very enlightening.

Islands7

This topic is not looking for opinions, as plenty of these can be found elsewhere on this site.
CHL we know requires one to secure their weapons when unattended.
The scenario here is - one drives their convertible "rag top" into the parking lot of church/school/post office/etc. and must secure their weapon in this car when entering such buildings.
The most obvious compliance would be one of those lockboxes that steel cable to one of the car's fixed metal pieces - but is this purchase really necessary, as per the law?
These other solutions need to be addressed by those closer to the law or have real-life experiences (again, no opinions please!).
These "solutions" assume locked doors, top up & locked in place, trunk locked AND that "concealed" does not equal "secured":
1. Inside locked glove box
2. Inside unlocked or unlockable glove box
3. Concealed inside other unlockable compartments, e.g. center console, door map pocket (covered by towel/rag), "hidden compartment",Inside running board concealed under seat, etc.
4. Inside trunk
5. Inside lockable tool box that resides on & is secured (by concealed bolts) to running board (older cars)
6. Inside locked luggage secured to outside luggage rack; further how secure does the luggage have to be to be compliant; or does the weapon have to be inside a lockbox inside the luggage if not secured legally?

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