I can't let this one pass, as my father used to say: Don't be telling me its raining while you are wetting on my leg. LOL...Perhaps I am thin skinned during my posts and need to thicken up as suggested, I treat this forum as a training/learning event, especially while I am involved in posting. I enjoy the use of this forum when I read prior experiences, starting to post on areas that I find not fully developed and all for free. Where can I draw upon other L.E. experiences, other Military experiences, along with those without formal training and their experiences. Put all of these into a bowl and come out, hopefully, better prepared. For this I do thank all of those who post their experiences and hopefully we can continue to evolve our thought processes. Now off to the range.speedsix wrote:...big difference between sarcasm and the humor I poked at myself and Excaliber...wasn't even directed at you...your skin might get a bit thicker through the years...that'd be a good thing...nothing for you to get your back up over...DEB wrote:I don't believe I said that at all. As Excaliber stated he doesn't know my experience level, nor does he or you know my age. I do read how the anti-gun folks believe only L.E. should be allowed to carry as they are the only ones trained well enough to respond to a possible self-defense need. And when I read on this forum suggestions, that to me, further that same progressive anti-gun reasoning I attempted to respond as passively and intelligently as possible. Perhaps I failed in my response. I agree that prior experiences are important, but I also believe that individuals by the time they are old enough to carry, probably have experienced problems that now cause them to want to carry. I have trained and led individuals and I believe that often the required action depends on the individual's reaction to the threat, often even without having L.E. or any other external formal training. But as now the conversation has devolved to sarcasm, I will butt out and bow to your greater intellect...speedsix wrote:...Excaliber, I think we been told old farellers oughta ACT like old farellers and leave the action to the young whippersnappers...kinda seems like it to me...speakin' for myself, the only reason you see me in this wheelchair with a blanket 'cross my knees is it's the only way I can conceal my M60...lemmeatum!!!
Search found 6 matches
- Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:50 am
- Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
- Topic: Irving P.D.
- Replies: 61
- Views: 10067
Re: Irving P.D.
- Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:07 pm
- Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
- Topic: Irving P.D.
- Replies: 61
- Views: 10067
Re: Irving P.D.
Excaliber wrote:Speedsix is just having a bit of fun with both of us. Speaking for myself, I don't mind a little levity and he's welcome to have a little fun at my expense. The ability to participate in this as the poker or pokee without meanness or offense is another part of the LEO experience that is sadly no longer common outside of the emergency services / military community.DEB wrote:I don't believe I said that at all. As Excaliber stated he doesn't know my experience level, nor does he or you know my age. I do read how the anti-gun folks believe only L.E. should be allowed to carry as they are the only ones trained well enough to respond to a possible self-defense need. And when I read on this forum suggestions, that to me, further that same progressive anti-gun reasoning I attempted to respond as passively and intelligently as possible. Perhaps I failed in my response. I agree that prior experiences are important, but I also believe that individuals by the time they are old enough to carry, probably have experienced problems that now cause them to want to carry. I have trained and led individuals and I believe that often the required action depends on the individual's reaction to the threat, often even without having L.E. or any other external formal training. But as now the conversation has devolved to sarcasm, I will butt out and bow to your greater intellect...speedsix wrote:...Excaliber, I think we been told old farellers oughta ACT like old farellers and leave the action to the young whippersnappers...kinda seems like it to me...speakin' for myself, the only reason you see me in this wheelchair with a blanket 'cross my knees is it's the only way I can conceal my M60...lemmeatum!!!
I don't see a suggestion that only LEO's should be allowed to carry anywhere in this thread and I think that viewpoint would be hard to find even in the archives of this forum. Self defense is an inalienable right for everyone, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find members here who would disagree.
You're right that most folks who go through the trouble of getting a CHL and actually carrying on a daily basis usually have some incident or concern they could point to as the motivation for all that effort. Just as getting your driver's license made you legal but not as immediately able to handle emergency driving situations as you are now, getting a CHL doesn't make one fully prepared to successfully manage all types of violent encounters, which come in many flavors.
Some people do manage to get through bad situations they didn't train for through courage, determination, and a good dose of luck. Others who were similarly unprepared didn't fare nearly as well. During a life threatening incident, thinking skills are severely diminished and it's extremely difficult to come up with creative solutions under fire.
Training and experience tilt the odds in one's favor and keep a repertoire of preplanned and well thought out good decisions on tap so they're readily available when needed. This doesn't mean that someone with lots of training and experience will always be successful, or that someone with little training or experience will always be unsuccessful. It simply influences the likelihood of a good or bad outcome, based on what's happened to others in the past.
- Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:07 pm
- Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
- Topic: Irving P.D.
- Replies: 61
- Views: 10067
Re: Irving P.D.
I don't believe I said that at all. As Excaliber stated he doesn't know my experience level, nor does he or you know my age. I do read how the anti-gun folks believe only L.E. should be allowed to carry as they are the only ones trained well enough to respond to a possible self-defense need. And when I read on this forum suggestions, that to me, further that same progressive anti-gun reasoning I attempted to respond as passively and intelligently as possible. Perhaps I failed in my response. I agree that prior experiences are important, but I also believe that individuals by the time they are old enough to carry, probably have experienced problems that now cause them to want to carry. I have trained and led individuals and I believe that often the required action depends on the individual's reaction to the threat, often even without having L.E. or any other external formal training. But as now the conversation has devolved to sarcasm, I will butt out and bow to your greater intellect...speedsix wrote:...Excaliber, I think we been told old farellers oughta ACT like old farellers and leave the action to the young whippersnappers...kinda seems like it to me...speakin' for myself, the only reason you see me in this wheelchair with a blanket 'cross my knees is it's the only way I can conceal my M60...lemmeatum!!!
- Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:12 pm
- Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
- Topic: Irving P.D.
- Replies: 61
- Views: 10067
Re: Irving P.D.
Perhaps I didn't cover it succintly enough, not the first time. As former L.E./Military often one will revert to previous training by getting involved in situations that one shouldn't or by immediatly going after the bad guy without processing one's current age or etc. I read where individuals complain about one person's actions and then give former L.E. a by, when they do pretty much the same thing. I mentioned on a previous post how one of my friends, former L.E., lit out after a bad guy, while unarmed, when said bad guy stole a women' s purse at a funeral home. When L.E. arrived much of their time was spent questioning him as they felt he could have been the bad guy. Another former Border Patrol Officer ran down the street during a drive by, while armed, and was himself arrested when current L.E. arrived. I have also seen where current/former military have involved themselves in situations where they could be considered the aggressor...We all get old whether we like it or not, move on to other occupations and etc. When one says former others often say ex-. Not knocking anyone, just trying to explain my thought process, however difficult that becomes, especially for me. I was also trying to convey that training, previous experiences degrade over time, without one continuing to be exposed to the stressors one had in a previous life. As far as a President's experience goes, that would have to be in another thread. I haven't been to overly impressed with many of those in my life time, especially our current. But, I am sure there are those that could persuasively argue that as well.Excaliber wrote:
I'm at a loss to understand how experience in successfully managing the many challenges of multiple life threatening criminal encounters over time would put one at a judgment or performance disadvantage when compared to someone who has never done so at all.
That's a lot like saying we'd be better off with a president who has never run a business or served anywhere as an executive with profit and loss responsibility for anything.
How well that works out is on full display for all to see.
- Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:23 pm
- Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
- Topic: Irving P.D.
- Replies: 61
- Views: 10067
Re: Irving P.D.
I agree about one making a blanket statement that they would do this or that action, especially if you have never been exposed to danger before. But reading these experiences as well as stories of those involved in self-defensive actions does allow me, as I suppose others, to imagine and therefore react to certain situations. Even if one does not have L.E. or Military experience, one can win against impossible odds. I read almost weekly if not daily of individuals placed in life or death situations, that not only persevere but are also victorious in overcoming an adversity, even without that vaulted L.E. experience. This includes all genres. An old lady killing an individual who broke into her house, a man shooting an individual attempting to rob his girlfriend at gunpoint, and these are just two of the most recent acts I have read about. One could go on and on. While the only self-defense shooting I have read about from prior L.E., at least recently, is that individual who stopped that gunman after he ran amok in the neighborhood. By the way God bless him for his actions. This is not blasting L.E. or former L.E. it just is. I believe the reason these "untrained" individuals were able to succeed is that they previously thought out their actions that they would or could take in case of...Actually, I also believe that prior L.E. and Military Combat experience could be a liability of sorts in how one reacts to a possible threat, one has to think about this as well, perhaps directly attacking a threat wouldn't be the best answer. I intend to continue to read and play out possible scenarios, maybe then if the worse does come I also will be better prepared both legally and morally, don't know though.Keith B wrote: The decision to go out vs. stay in depends totally on the individual and the level of training. For Speedsix, Excalibur, Carlson and myself, even though we all have backgrounds in law enforcement, every situation should yield a different answer. For those who have not had formal training or a background in this, there should be more of a question of confronting someone like this.
IMO, it is best under many situations to stay inside. However, Carlson made the decision that under the circumstances he was faced with at the time, he was in a good position to prevent the theft of his truck without placing himself in a position of peril. Take a different night, different condition of the body (tired, sick, etc.), different lighting (moon/no moon), possibly more than one perp, yada yada and Carl's decision might have been different.
So, to blanket state you will go out and confront anyone in any situation is not IMO a wise choice. I will pick and choose my battles and only fight those that I feel are in my best interest to fight and have a good chance of winning.
- Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:55 pm
- Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
- Topic: Irving P.D.
- Replies: 61
- Views: 10067
Re: Irving P.D.
speedsix wrote:...I agree..I won't cower in my house and watch someone rip me off...and waiting for the police is a laugh...even here, where we have a great response time, it's too late...if it's on my property...it's my business..and I will deal with it...life is full of risks...I've been a cop on night shift for many years...I never told a man who was willing and armed to stay in the house and wait for us to come handle it...I think it's a step in the wrong direction...and I won't take it...if the government can tell us not to deal with trespassers or thieves, it's a short step to telling us not to deal with home invaders or burglars...any one know how it is in old London these days??? it IS a personal choice...made many years ago, and no likelihood of changing anytime soon...you can stack what-ifs a mile high...if that's your choice...
Excellent statement, quick and to the point...