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Keith B wrote:

labrat1001001 wrote:Maybe I’m being a little obtuse, but I didn’t see a gun when the contact was leaning back into his vehicle, I only saw black leather. Isn’t there some legal difference here?

It was easily recognizable as a holster, even from the dash cam. The officer also had a different vantage point, so he may have even been able to see there was a handgun in the holster.

One of the interesting aspects of this case is the statement that I've heard repeated a lot - BGs don't wear holsters. I've often wondered:

1. It is true? Is there any LEO with an experience of a BG who did have a holster?

2. If it is true, it it recognized by most LEOs? If so, that would further detract from the reasonableness of the actions of the LEO in the video

I realize that there are no absolutes in something like this. There always could be a first time the ends up getting an officer killed. But if there is wide acceptance of the holster-less BG concept, an accidental exposure with a recognizable holster should be handled better.

Keith B wrote: Appearance is one of the major factors that will definitely sway a LEO. It is basically all they have to go on when making a stop before they get to interact with the subject. While they may not be prejudice overall, first appearances are everything to everyone. We all judge someone we see when them approach us. That is what makes us go on alert or stay in condition yellow.

This very reason is why I state you should stay in your vehicle with the weapon concealed, and when they approach make sure you let them know you have a CHL and are armed. In Texas, you must do this when asked for ID by law, so it is smart to do it as soon as possible to let the officer you you are forthcoming and are not trying to hide anything.

In general, I agree with what you are saying but seek a couple of clarifications.

1. Judging only by appearance is profiling. While I understand, at some level, the need to do that, it can have the result of discrimination if it is allowed to go too far. Since it has the potential for abuse, it is an area where constant emphasis by departments should be placed. To me, there is a big difference between me using Situational Awareness to keep an eye on those who appear to be more of a threat to me than others and a LEO using profiling to take actions against citizens. One is passive, the other is aggressive. What say you?

2. When taking action, one's motives are sometimes displayed. The officer in this case, I believe, betrayed some of his underlying thought process and it wasn't for the better of himself or his fellow officers. If he had methodically just taken control of the situation, even to the point of putting the man on the ground and handcuffing him, I would have been a lot more OK with it. The threats to shoot an otherwise compliant citizen and his foray into abusive language are as much about "appearance" as anything that the citizen did.

Topbuilder wrote:I feel for the guy. Stay in the vehicle. Papers in hand, hands on the wheel by the time officer gets to your window. Hand it all over when asked. It's just not that hard. Trust me. I have A L O T of experience in the matter.

I've had three stops in the last 25 years, none of them were citations and none since I got my CHL. Even before I had it, both hands were on the wheel and all my moves were after I had the officer's agreement. I have never exited a vehicle and would never do so unless I was asked. The way that the subject in the video whipped out his wallet would have had me nervous, though I agree that he did nothing wrong.

The officer over-reacted IMHO. I've never understood the need to curse in the performance of duty. I suspect that the LEO was startled and fearful and that perhaps led to his response. I so no reason at all for his threat to shoot the driver but I'm not on the street dealing with potentially bad people all day. I'm reminded of that Ohio incident where the officer handled a similar situation in much the same manner. The Ohio LEO had a history of such actions and was fired a few month later.

It would be interesting to see if a complaint was filed on this one and what the disposition of that complaint was.