Search found 5 matches

by chasfm11
Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:22 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry
Replies: 54
Views: 8888

Re: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry

baldeagle wrote: I always thought that the US constitution applied only to US citizens and that the framers did not intend for the bill of rights and other provisions to apply to others who were merely located in the US (slaves, British soldiers fighting the war of 1812, Native Americans, etc. etc.). Was I misinformed in my public school education on this point?
I may be wrong, but I think the logic goes like this. Humans have certain inalienable rights, among them life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. To secure those rights we Americans formed a government designed to interfere with those rights as little as possible and built in all sorts of checks and balances against the natural human tendency to abuse power. Therefore, anyone residing within our borders, citizen or not, is entitled to those basic rights. They are also responsible to abide by our laws. As far as the shades of the law and exactly which rights they enjoy, I think perhaps Charles or another lawyer on the forum could answer better than I.

To put it another way, do you think it would be morally acceptable for us to try and convict a non-citizen without the benefit of a lawyer and a jury simply because they are not a citizen? Or to deny them the right to speak? Or to worship as they saw fit? (Note that I am not referring to people who are in the country illegally. They are lawbreakers and the responsibility of the government.)
I listened to Megan Kelly address this matter on the O'Reilly factor this evening. She clerked for the US Supreme Court. She says that the courts have held that a strong case must be made to deny citizen's rights to those who are here legally, as the UK citizen is. With the exception of voting, a legal non-citizen can do anything that a citizen can.

Maybe a Constitutional lawyer can be more explicit.
by chasfm11
Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:46 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry
Replies: 54
Views: 8888

Re: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry

Liberty wrote: (snip)
A conservative will explain with exhuberance , after a shooting "One less piece of scum to support."
A leftist might better understand." One more Daddy able to go home to take care of his family"
51% support isn't enough we need 99% for the RKBA and can'y let it receive any less respect . than other fundamental rights and freedoms.
While I agree with your logic, I haven't found success in dealing with Liberals and using that kind of argument. Let's look at NJ where we had to live for 3 years. The officials there don't seem to care if one more Daddy goes home. They are willing to allow the rampant BGs to kill off a few citizens rather than to allow any citizen to fight back. It is a power thing. I cannot imagine the argument that it would take to change their mind.

I've engaged what I call "Florida Liberals" in conversations on a variety of subjects including RKBA. The lady that comes to mind would have restricted burning coal "if just one person in the US had breathing problems because of it." It wasn't a power thing for her at all, she was one of those who was into "feelings" and she had a raft of subjects on which she just didn't feel it was right. She didn't feel that it was right for the LEOs to shoot criminals let alone allow ordinary citizens to do it. She would have willingly turned over any and all of her freedoms to the government.

I've developed some pretty interesting techniques for engaging in conversations with Liberals and I find it fascinating to do it. I hold no hope that I'm going to be successful any time soon in gaining RKBAs converts from those ranks. Perhaps I just not persuasive enough. I figure that the ACLU has about the same chance of consistently supporting RKBA lawsuits.
by chasfm11
Wed Jan 05, 2011 2:17 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry
Replies: 54
Views: 8888

Re: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry

baldeagle wrote:I couldn't help but be struck by the irony of a British citizen fighting for the right to carry a concealed weapon in the US when, if he returned home, those same rights would be completely out of the question.
:iagree: Amazing, isn't it?
by chasfm11
Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:07 pm
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry
Replies: 54
Views: 8888

Re: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry

phrogg wrote:Wow, I am so surprised by this. I make the blanket assumption that the ACLU is only liberal and only takes up causes I'm not inclined to agree with. I thought this topic was going to be about the ACLU suing SD to stop some sort of CC, not the other way around. Pleasant surprise.
With my tin foil hat firmly in place and looking for conspiracy under every rock, this seems to be more of a thrust towards the rights of non-citizens than towards concealed carry or gun rights. I believe that the ACLU has an agenda and that they coordinate very well (as does the NRA) to further that agenda in places and ways that it makes sense. I also believe that they are very opportunistic and will ride the rising sentiment toward the 2nd amendment while they can, hoping to deal it a death blow later. All of us realize that it would only take a couple of changes on the Supreme Court to allow an ACLU push towards a gun ban.

I see the SD situation with the ACLU as neither good nor bad. I'll let the better thinkers at the NRA make those judgments. As Andy C points out, they have backed pro-gun action in the past on occasion. I just thought it might be a worthy topic to bat around on this forum on an otherwise slow news day.
by chasfm11
Wed Jan 05, 2011 10:32 am
Forum: Gun and/or Self-Defense Related Political Issues
Topic: ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry
Replies: 54
Views: 8888

ACLU Sues SD over Concealed Carry

I hope this isn't a duplicate thread

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/news/ar ... 03286.html
“All legal residents have a right to life, and they still have a right to defend themselves,” Lautenschlager said. “Individuals caught in this quandary should be recognized. They haven’t yielded their rights by breaking any laws.”
Interesting coming from the ACLU

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