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At the risk of taking this long thread even further, I'd like to inject another real situation into the discussion.

viewtopic.php?f=26&t=37175

In it jackal858 says:

It was a Saturday night after a home Texas A&M Football game in College Station. Me and two female friends decided to go to Subway to get some sandwiches after we got home from the massive traffic jam that always occurs after the games are over. We went to the Subway on Southwest Parkway, which was just about 1/2 mile from my apartment at the time, and was a Subway that I frequented. We got our Sandwiches and went to sit down, and as my late grandfather always said "a good gun slinger never sits with his back to the door", and though I never had carried a gun, I tended to always do this anyways, so I positioned myself facing the door with my two friends sitting across at a table close to the register. We were just about to leave (around 12:30 AM), and right as I was about to get up I see a man wearing all black and a black ski mask with something in his hand came walking by the glass windows at the front of the store towards the door. Before he even got inside, I calmly told my friends sitting across from me, "Don't freak out." As he came in the door, he started waving a SA black pistol around (I'm sure I'd be able to ID the gun now, but this was before I knew much of anything about particular makes or models). He immediately went to the register and demanded the money, which one of the employees quickly complied. I suppose him realizing I was the most likely person to intervene (being male and with open space between me and him), he decides he needs to pacify me above any others, so I get the gun pointed at me from about 8' away. I have never felt as helpless in my life as I did at that moment. I had no choice but to simply sit there and hope to God that I didn't go the way of my cousin. My absolute number one emotional reaction was anger, with a tad of fear just enough to keep myself from doing something stupid. He got the money (something like $140), and quickly ran out the back door into the dark alley behind the building. I immediately got up to make sure the back door was fully shut, instructed one of the workers to lock the front door, and called the police. The fine CSPD was there within a minute, and we ended up being there until close to 2:30 AM as they processed the scene and took our statements.

For those who have said that they would act in this situation, the question is when. It would seem that there are only a few choices.
1. As the BG walks into the Subway, assuming that you saw him in sufficient time to draw. My imagination has the backdrop for the BG being the window glass in front of the store and with unknown persons in the dark outside
2. While he is at the cash register, demanding the money. Based on how most Subways are laid out, this might mean shooting towards the kitchen where employees unaware of the situation might be working.
3. When he pointed the gun at Jack868. Legally, this would seem the safest but still might have the employees directly behind the BG. It also seems to be the greatest tactical disadvantage which might have put Jackal and his companions in the direct line of return fire, even if a perfectly executed a double tap COM was delivered.
4. As the BG turns and tries to exit. This would be the safest tactically but looks like it could pose a real legal problem. One could easily argue that the BG was no longer a threat.

Oldgringo wrote:So, it's decided that we'll sit there eating with our off hand while our gun is in our strong hand covered by our napkin?

Once the guy gets his change for the parking meter from the "old lady" running the front and goes out to pay the parking meter, can we put away our guns and use our napkins or must we wait unti he comes back in and is seated?

Just askin...

As one who has no experience in even thinking about these kinds of situations, it would seem that the crux of the problem is in the potential escalation of the situation. If it is a robbery and the BG simply takes the money and leaves, no one's life hangs in the balance. Perhaps the BG's gun isn't loaded or he has no intention of using it but is simply using the power that it gives him to take what he wants.

The scene changes if he uses his gun or even appears that he is going to use the gun. Some of the triggers for that are that he sweeps the patrons with the barrel of the gun rather than just taking the money and leaving. I'm not optimistic that several rounds into the BG are going to be sufficient to keep him from firing his weapon at someone.

I dread the worst case outcome. One of the other patrons tells the police that the BG was going to leave without doing anything but the shots that I fired caused him to return fire and several innocent people are dead as a result. The BG survives, his ambulance chasing lawyer and the families of all of the victims sue me, claiming that the escalation of the problem was all my fault. The BG takes the witness stand and, in tears, tells that jury that he never meant to hurt anyone but he suffered as a child and just needed money for his drugs to take away his pain.

Having said that, I was driving in NC on a rainy night. We were in pretty much bumper to bumper traffic on a two lane road in both directions. My work colleague and I were chatting in our car when suddenly a car slams into the back of the car that is directly across from us, going the opposite direction. I had about a second to look at the face of the driver of the car that caused the accident and I said to my colleague "he is going to run." Sure enough, he puts his car into reverse and then swings it onto the far berm of the road and drives off. There wasn't even a good chance to get a license number. While we waited for the LEO to arrive after making sure the driver of the damaged car wasn't hurt, my colleague asked me how I knew what was going to happen. I told her that I could see it in his eyes. Don't ask me how.

Faced with this hypothetical situation, I would probably trying to study the BG as carefully as possible, assuming that I could see his face. Even if I couldn't, body language can sometimes tell a lot. There are certainly no guarantees. For those of who aren't ever going to be trained in tactical responses, it is the best that we can do, IMHO.