TexasCHLforum.com

ScooterSissy wrote:The OP in this thread sent me an email that he did finally get his CHL, and it even said Veteran on it!

He said he expressed to Senator Campbell that (quoted below):

I was more interested in DPS policy correction than getting my license and he said: "they [DPS] stated they have included that in their verbiage to remove doubt, debate, or interpretation as to the difference in honorable under other conditions." and he said: "I will do a follow up and see if they can send me a memo they posted or how they train their personnel and get back to you if that is fine with you?"

I for one, am glad to see that the effort got some results.

To each his own...
I will contact my Rep, to express my unhappiness with any policy that provide benefit directly or in kind to a Vet discharged with anything other than an Honorable Discharge.

I spent 29 years personally observing the level of character, professionalism, honor and dedication of duty for those discharged under all possible characterization of service. My personal opinion based on my observations is it is a discredit to those that did right and were discharged with an Honorable Discharge to allow others the same after service benefits.

JP171 wrote:it will say in the character of service block "under honorable conditions" nothing more nothing less it is NOT considered an "HONORABLE" discharge because your term of service wasn't completed it is an administrative discharge for some form of failure to adapt to military life under AR 635-200

General discharges are not limited to only those who were separated early.
You can serve your entire enlistment and still receive a general discharge.

And to answer another person suggestion.. NO the type of discharge is NOT decided upon by the clerk (mostly civilians these days) that process your separation and DD214.
That is the commanders call, and his commander as well if it is anything other than honorable.

That means if a service member received anything other than an honorable discharge AT LEAST to commanders reviewed and approved that discharge type.

ScooterSissy wrote: I wonder if those that did do something extraordinary (let's not exaggerate, say - saved some folks, became a Seal Sniper, and did multiple tours in the sandbox) are as resentful that folks such as yourself are "lumped into the same category with the same benefits and recognition"...

No we are not.

Honorable Discharge is just that
General discharge under honorable conditions is just that.
Those that received a General discharge did not EARN an Honorable Discharge ..Its really not that hard to understand unless you are looking to justify why you or a loved one failed to earn a Honorable Discharge.

casp625 wrote:Your "separation code" and "narrative reason for separation" are on in the same. You don't need to look up the code since the narrative already shows it...

Not all pages (copies) of the DD214 have the narrative and SEP code. And the narrative is free text typed in by the retirement clerk, the code is a separate thing added.. so Yes it is very possible for the narrative to say one thing and the code be for something else.
In example..
My narrative states "Sufficient service for separation" There are however more then a dozen SEP codes which could have been used with that narrative .. Mine says RBD which is "Retirement - 20 - 30 Years Service"
But had the military wanted to, they could have used NET - RBB - Retirement - Other, SFJ - Permanent Disability - Retired, or any of another dozen codes that could apply to me..
And then there are the ones that have a negative implication which could be in contention to the narrative

member copy (page) 4 does not show the type of discharge at all.

mojo84 wrote:I'm not arguing with you.

Here are the current ones per militarypay.defense.gov

Im not arguing with anyone...

I simply said, the AR is restricted, it is not publicly made available. That some member of a military service or Gov worker decided to publish that section of the reg is not surprising at all.

Once the news broke (well before my time in the service ) mid 1970's...Most service members i know are aware of the SPD code, and know exactly what is on the DD214.
When I processed out in 2014 i was shown the SPD on my DD214, and shown in the reg what it represented. Seemed a pretty standard procedure then.. For sure it was not in 1970...but that was then, this is now.

mojo84 wrote:Are these the codes?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... DjZ7KYMO4Q

At the time that page was published, but before the deluge of ALARACT messages for the next few years and then a republishing of the AR. Yes, those would appear to have been the SPD codes at the time. Like I said , not state secrets. The idea is.. Honorable discharge means one thing,, completion of Honorable service. That is what the public needs to know.

anything less than an honorable discharge is issued for a reason.. You want to know the reason.. ask the owner to say so and support his position.. Or do a FOIA and find out for yourself.
I have several times....its not that hard

Right2Carry wrote:
Those three digit codes were leaked long ago and in 30 seconds or less you can find them on the Internet from veteran organizations to a host of sites. The codes also have their meanings attached so it isn't a secret anymore. One can find out exactly what that code means if they want to spend a few minutes digging.

You can see what there were, not what they are..so no, not state secrets for sure.. just not publicly available

They change, they are added to, removed, revised. There are messages sent out all year that change them, as well as each time the reg is re published.

Yes you can get thousands of google hits..Some of it will be accurate, some not, and unless they have recently posted the revised list of codes, some codes missing. You can also pay one of many companies that will do the leg work and get you a copy of a SM's DD214 for you as well as provide deciphering and explanations to each part of it.. That will get you better info than what you can likely find yourself.

Right2Carry wrote: Honorable conditions is not the same as a Honorable Discharge which is what we are discussing.

Thanks, thats not news to me,, what is your point?

Right2Carry wrote:You should also be aware that there is a seperation code (3 digits) which is also on the long DD214 which gives additional information about the discharge.

Not only am I very aware of the Separation Program Designators (SPD) Codes. I know they are not publicly available.
Army Regulation (AR) 635-5-1 provides separation codes for Soldiers based upon the type of separation
http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs/635_seri ... ion_1.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That means unless you have access, that code means NOTHING to you the casual observer.. It could stand for separated from active duty due to financial indebtedness, pregnancy or trial by court martial.
Try a FOIA if you want a current description for each current code.

The reenlistment eligibility ( RE ) code is public knowledge and may tell part of the story as well.
RE codes of interest and relevant to this discussion

RE-3 - Individuals who are not qualified for continued Army service, but the disqualification is waiverable. Ineligible for enlistment unless a waiver is granted.

RE-3B - Individuals who have time lost during their last period of service. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. (paras 2-7 and 2-8a). Applicable to EM who have time lost during thier last period of service.

RE-3C - lndividuals who have completed over 4 months service who do not meet the pay grade requirements of Chapter 2), or who have been denied enlistment under Qualitative Screening Process pursuant to Chapter 4 AR 600-200. Ineligible for enlistment unless waiver is granted. Applicable to persons who have completed over 8 months service who do not meet the prior grade and service criterion of the Qualitative Management Program (AR 600-200 Chapter 4).

RE-4 - Individuals separated from last period of service with a nonwaiverable disqualification (refer to AR 601-280). Ineligible for enlistment except as provided for in paragraphs 2-7c and 2-7d. (See waiverable moral and administrative disqualifications.) Disqualilication is nonwaivable.

RE-4R - Individuals retiring after 20 or more years active Federal service (title 10, U.S. Code 3914 or 3917) Ineligible for enlistment. (THIS IS ON MY DD214 )

Right2Carry wrote: The type of discharge one receives is dependant on many factors.

Yes, Im aware of that and stated so myself above..
Again.. in my experience over 29 years as recently as 2014 only those that deserved the general discharge or worse received it, was it not for the convenience of the unit or government in general, something less than a general discharge would likely have been issued..That is the point I have made and maintained in this entire conversation.
But the Army is a large group...it's entirely possible in a unit someplace that I never served (lots of those). in the Reserves (never served) in the National Guard (never served) unit leaders and post admin processors chose to issue a general discharge just because it was thursday. ...and the Sm in question did not serve in their proposal opinion with distinction. When that happens ...there is an appeal process..

Others with like length of service who served in a leadership positions to have a wide range of first hand knowledge and observations may differ from mine.. of course. Though none that Im aware of have spoken up in this thread..

Right2Carry wrote: I have honorable discharged plates on my vehicle but I don't thing someone who has a general discharge under honorable conditions is entitled to the same plate. Tjat all depends on DPS and their definition of Honorable Discharge.

I agree, and no place in anything I posted is in contention to your point and position. IOW I think we are agreeing... but your post in response reads like we do not

Right2Carry wrote:

E.Marquez wrote:

MeMelYup wrote:

SkipB wrote:I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

Your opinion is NOT what I personally observed in my time of service 1985-2014. Not a single service member that was separated early from a contract who left in good standing was given ANYTHING but a Honorable Discharge

I am just curious on how you know this? Did you actually see every single discharge that was handed out during the time frame you posted?

No, nor did i say that or imply it.

But I did observe many hundreds of Soldiers being discharged, and many Discharged involuntarily.. I personally executed the process on many dozens of servicemembers who were separated under Honorable conditions that did not serve the contracted period of service.

I had second hand knowledge of hundreds more Soldiers who were discharged before ETS.... with both Honorable and General discharges.

MeMelYup wrote:

SkipB wrote:I was going to stay away from this post but I'm going to have my say. An Honorable Discharge is what one gets after completing a commitment of time served in the service. A General Discharge is when the service just gets rid of you for what ever reason. For me looking at that I think you have already got way more than you deserve. When you try to put your situation in the same category as an Honorable Discharged service member is the same as Stolen Valor.

Not necessarily. A Gen With Honorable Condition can be for reasons that you were not able to complete a tour. Use to be, your wife died and you had to take care of the five kids and were nondeployable in a combat arms MOS you had to get out on a hardship discharge. Anything not of a disciplinary nature that a person could not complete their tour. Was elected as a State Representative while on active duty.

Your opinion is NOT what I personally observed in my time of service 1985-2014. Not a single service member that was separated early from a contract who left in good standing was given ANYTHING but a Honorable Discharge

loren wrote:My point though is that the law does not specify a veteran must have an "Honorable Discharge" but that he/she was honorably discharged. My discharge does have the word "honorable" in it.

The point is, Texas is choosing to honor those that served and has set the bar for that honor at an Honorable Discharge .
Having dealt with many, many service members being separated early I can say for sure, a General discharge was given for a reason,

And in 28 years 8 months not a one of the general discharges I had part in..not one of those service members deserve any benefits,, that there are federal laws that allows for some benefits is of no mitigating reason in my mind. .. they pay congressmen that refuse to do their jobs.

Im sure there are exceptions and for that the is a remedy.

If the Soldier was truly deserving of a Honorable discharge but got a general, they can appeal for a discharge upgrade..
http://arba.army.pentagon.mil/adrb-overview.cfm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;