TexasCHLforum.com

gringop wrote:[I suggest that you pay attention on your next CHL renewal class.

GC §411.207. AUTHORITY OF PEACE OFFICER TO DISARM.
(a) A peace officer who is acting in the lawful discharge of the
officer's official duties may disarm a license holder at any time the
officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the
license holder, officer, or another individual. The peace officer shall
return the handgun to the license holder before discharging the license
holder from the scene if the officer determines that the license holder
is not a threat to the officer, license holder, or another individual and if
the license holder has not violated any provision of this subchapter or
committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the license
holder.

Yes, got it..

Where in that statute does it mention that the officer has the right to place the weapon on my personal property in a manner which is likely to cause damage?

Where in that statute does it REQUIRE the officer to physically handle the weapon?

Where in that statute does it REQUIRE the LEO to take the weapon he likely has no personal experience with, unload it, clear and check the serial number.. under the presumption it MAY be stolen... So might the car I'm driving, the watch on my wrist, the long gun in my trunk, the weapon in my car that is at hand, but not in the holster he just "Disarmed"?

The statute authorizes the LEO to disarm a citizen carrying a concealed weapon.. No argument… The HOW is not cited, and the WHY seems to be open to whatever reason the LEO in question wants it to be.

Funny, I treat folks I deal with much the same way… Only,,, they are likely insurgents, possessing weapons, explosives and have a known and stated intent to kill me and all of those around me. Seems some LEO’s have the same mentality when dealing with the people they protect and serve (though the SCOTUS says they have no responsibility to protect us I believe.. Note to self..I need to find that case and decision remarks)

Keith B wrote:Texas Transportation Code § 502.404 only states displayed at the 'front and rear'. Nothing is stated about front-most point. So the officer was interpreting this himself. Now, if he wants, he can write you a ticket, you can go fight it, potentially win on a technicality, but now you have wasted a lot of time and potential expense.

If "HE" can’t see it from where he is in front, then your likely to get the ticket your asking for. If it's attached to the windshield as I have seen at times then it is impeding your view and again can get you a ticket.. if it is flat on the dash, then it likely cannot be seen from many positions in front of the vehicle as a front bumper mounted plate would be. That’s what the LEO is likely to tell the judge, who is like to agree as he, probably has a plat attached to front FRONT of his vehicle.

Then there is the whole definition of the word FRONT
: the forward part or surface
: position ahead of a person or of the foremost part of a thing
Couple the common usage and definition of the word front with an officer standing in court saying from the front he could clearly see the bumper and the manufactures designed location for the plate, but could not read the plate as it rested on the dash.. and we can guess what the judge will decide.

Right wrong or whatever… it is what it is. I don’t like the plate on the front of my S197, but it’s required. I don’t like the idea of LEO places his hands on me or my lawfully carried weapon, but it’s the law, so I’ll deal with it if I ever have to.

BTW, neither close friends (Husband and wife LEO’s in two different departments) said it was taught in training to disarm as a rule, just that they can. And it was not taught that if you decided to, reaching in and doing it your self was the “right” way. Both also said, they nor their fellow officers have an issue with CCW, and would not disarm as a rule or policy on that issue alone.

I don't believe you have a choice, though a equally polite counter offer ,might work. " Sir no issue at all with disarming,, to protect my fire arm and car, would it be ok if I disarm, clear the weapon and place it on the seat or glove box?" At worst he will say no, but at least it is courteous discussion and he has been placed on notice you would find it inappropriate to place the weapon in a location that is likely to cause damage to the car or gun. If he continued done the "I will remove the weapon from your holster" (which by the way places the LEO in a more dangerous situation from a reasonable skilled opponent, then if he maintained proper position and had you disarm) then at least offer a suggestion as to something to set the weapon on (rag, coat, something other than the roof of a nice car )

Do they unload and clear your weapon when they disarm you? or is there now a loaded gun out in the open not under personal control of a qualified person?

If the weapon is on your roof, and they have to go back to the cruiser to,, whatever,, do they take the gun with them?

Asking for you to disarm is unneeded.
Disarming you them self’s without you being in cuffs or at least a back up officer providing cover, if you truly are a BG, is quick way to get dead. Luckily for these disarm minded LEO's, the threat from a law abiding citizen that has a CHL is so low, that it's likely they will never encounter a CHL possessing BG intending to do them harm.

Having dinner with two local LEO’s today, from two different departments (husband and wife) Gona ask them again what was taught in cop school, training officer, what they hear on the street from other LEO’s about disarming CHL folks. They have told me before, it’s not taught , not policy at either department and not a personal policy in general, but of course always an option if the situation warranted.