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JJVP wrote:

G26ster wrote:

K.Mooneyham wrote:

G26ster wrote:So it's better then to post facts, statistics, and inconsistencies on this forum and other gun boards where you're preaching to the choir, than it is to provide factual information to those who daily are defending our 2A rights in the court of public opinion, and to the public at large where there ARE folks that are truly seeking the facts? Yeah, ok, that's helpful. Sure the libs don't care, but there are many on the fence that we have to reach with the truth, and help arm those making public statements in 2A defense. To just throw up our hands and say, "the public doesn't care," and continue to "talk amongst ourselves," is no way to help the cause. Every fact in support of our position helps, even if it moves the dial a fraction. MHO

That's not exactly what I meant. What I meant was, since the media convinces people who have little knowledge using "big lies", then we need "BIG facts" to refute them. I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to figure out what the big facts are that will cancel out the big lies. But it needs to be stuff that is simple and easily remembered. We CARE about firearms, and yes, some folks who aren't members of this forum, or any other firearms forum, care about firearms as much as we do. But, there are a LOT of people who only understand simple things about firearms and I think the only way to get to them is with things that are basic and easy to understand. For instance, I liked the picture of the 10-22 that went around a little while ago...one image of it had the action and barrel in a wooden stock...the other had it in a black plastic "evil" stock...and it said that it worked the same, it just looked different on the outside. That's the sort of thing that a LOT of people can understand.

I agree with you 100%, but I think this IS a BIG fact, and very easy to understand, and I think those same people will understand better that it was NOT the 30 rd mags that had anything to do with the tragedy, and lawmakers are simply looking for a "feel good" solution, and this is a glaring example of that. Perhaps you are satisfied with all those on our side that have spoken up in the national media, but I am not satisfied with many. They miss opportunity after opportunity to refute the misconceptions of the antis, continue to use terms like assault rifle, and when it comes to magazine limits, their usual answer is, "the gov't shouldn't tell me what I need." While true, and fundamental to liberty, it does not convince those on the fence that so-called hi-capacity magazines are not the problem. Wouldn't it be better when someone like David Gregory holds up an evil 30 rd magazine and rants about the horror it created at Sandy Hook, the response was, "but he only fired 9 rds out of each one, so how was the magazine size a factor???" "It obviously wasn't." That, even in the liberal media, has impact. If that picture of the 10-22 comparison was making its way around the media, and shown by those chosen to speak for 2A rights

It really doesn't matter how many stats and facts you give. Liberals only respond to emotions. The fact that Columbine occurred during the previous "assault weapons" ban and that they only used 10 round magazines doesn't matter to them.

Nowhere did I mention or suggest trying to convince liberals. As I said, "Sure the libs don't care, but there are many on the fence that we have to reach with the truth"

K.Mooneyham wrote:

G26ster wrote:So it's better then to post facts, statistics, and inconsistencies on this forum and other gun boards where you're preaching to the choir, than it is to provide factual information to those who daily are defending our 2A rights in the court of public opinion, and to the public at large where there ARE folks that are truly seeking the facts? Yeah, ok, that's helpful. Sure the libs don't care, but there are many on the fence that we have to reach with the truth, and help arm those making public statements in 2A defense. To just throw up our hands and say, "the public doesn't care," and continue to "talk amongst ourselves," is no way to help the cause. Every fact in support of our position helps, even if it moves the dial a fraction. MHO

That's not exactly what I meant. What I meant was, since the media convinces people who have little knowledge using "big lies", then we need "BIG facts" to refute them. I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to figure out what the big facts are that will cancel out the big lies. But it needs to be stuff that is simple and easily remembered. We CARE about firearms, and yes, some folks who aren't members of this forum, or any other firearms forum, care about firearms as much as we do. But, there are a LOT of people who only understand simple things about firearms and I think the only way to get to them is with things that are basic and easy to understand. For instance, I liked the picture of the 10-22 that went around a little while ago...one image of it had the action and barrel in a wooden stock...the other had it in a black plastic "evil" stock...and it said that it worked the same, it just looked different on the outside. That's the sort of thing that a LOT of people can understand.

I agree with you 100%, but I think this IS a BIG fact, and very easy to understand, and I think those same people will understand better that it was NOT the 30 rd mags that had anything to do with the tragedy, and lawmakers are simply looking for a "feel good" solution, and this is a glaring example of that. Perhaps you are satisfied with all those on our side that have spoken up in the national media, but I am not satisfied with many. They miss opportunity after opportunity to refute the misconceptions of the antis, continue to use terms like assault rifle, and when it comes to magazine limits, their usual answer is, "the gov't shouldn't tell me what I need." While true, and fundamental to liberty, it does not convince those on the fence that so-called hi-capacity magazines are not the problem. Wouldn't it be better when someone like David Gregory holds up an evil 30 rd magazine and rants about the horror it created at Sandy Hook, the response was, "but he only fired 9 rds out of each one, so how was the magazine size a factor???" "It obviously wasn't." That, even in the liberal media, has impact. If that picture of the 10-22 comparison was making its way around the media, and shown by those chosen to speak for 2A rights, it would have a heck of a lot more impact than it has by being floated around gun forums. As I said before, preaching to the choir doesn't move the needle. MHO.

So it's better then to post facts, statistics, and inconsistencies on this forum and other gun boards where you're preaching to the choir, than it is to provide factual information to those who daily are defending our 2A rights in the court of public opinion, and to the public at large where there ARE folks that are truly seeking the facts? Yeah, ok, that's helpful. Sure the libs don't care, but there are many on the fence that we have to reach with the truth, and help arm those making public statements in 2A defense. To just throw up our hands and say, "the public doesn't care," and continue to "talk amongst ourselves," is no way to help the cause. Every fact in support of our position helps, even if it moves the dial a fraction. MHO

Jumping Frog wrote:

G26ster wrote:... but if true it would seem blow a hole in one of the main arguments to ban so-called hi-capacity magazines. Of course I realize that it won't matter to those pushing for control, but if it is true, than that should be something pro 2A folks can use to push back. Anyone seen the PBS special?

Logic and facts do not matter at all to those evil lefties who simply are playing the long term game of attempting to remove all firearms from legal ownership.

This is true, but the public is not hearing enough facts from our side, and any fact that shows the futile nature of magazine bans can and should be used to push back. Public opinion carries weight. When we lose in the court of public opinion, we are closer to losing it all.

I just heard on O'Reilly that the PBS special on the investigation done by the Hartford Courent indicated that, "like in video games, Lanza changed magazines frequently, even though they were not empty." I haven't seen this broadcast, so I can't verify this, but if true it would seem blow a hole in one of the main arguments to ban so-called hi-capacity magazines. Of course I realize that it won't matter to those pushing for control, but if it is true, than that should be something pro 2A folks can use to push back. Anyone seen the PBS special?

Added:
After Newtown Special Programming

In the wake of the Newtown tragedy, PBS continues its coverage with a series of specials from PBS NewsHour, FRONTLINE, Washington Week, NOVA, Need to Know and more, looking at gun laws, mental illness and school security.

The weeklong “After Newtown” programming starts Monday, Feb. 18, on PBS (check local listings).