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Luggo1 wrote:I hesitate to weigh in here but why not...

I'm glad you wrote what you did. It is definitely something we need to consider; it's wise advice.

Just so you know, many gun owners were very unhappy (and vocally so) regarding what happened to Randy Weaver and his family, even though he's not our cup of sunshine.

Regarding the topic, I think many of us are frustrated that the U.N. has any dealings with how we carry out justice, and we see a double standard with the causes they choose to pursue.

Again, your post was informative and wise. I appreciate your posting. (There's no need to hide in a hole here.) :)

Sangiovese wrote:

Venus Pax wrote:

Sangiovese wrote:I believe the issue that they are raising is that he was never informed that he had the right to contact the consulate.

The two girls that he raped, tortured, and murdered were not given the opportunity to contact an advocate either.

Woah... you've got the wrong guy! I'm on your side.

I think that he got what he deserved (well, as much of what he deserved as our legal system allows...)

What I was trying to say is that people are making it out like he asked for access to his consulate and we denied it to him (in violation of the treaty)... and that is not the case. He never asked for it. (Until after he was sentenced to death.) I think that saying we violated some treaty because we didn't hold his hand and make sure he knew about it is absurd.

I wasn't trying to slam you. I realize that you were just summing up the DP opponents' argument. I was simply stating that we're hearing a lot about the measure of access he had to Mexican representation (when at any other time he would probably assert his rights as an American since he has been here since he was a toddler), while the world court fails to observe the enormity of the crime he bragged about to police.

I'm disgusted with the U.N. and it's world court. Brutal rapes and murders are committed against large numbers of women in other continents and they give it a token sympathy statement. When it happens to two young ladies here and we use our justice system to deal with it, they throw themselves behind the offenders' cause.

Again, I was not attacking you. I apologize if my post appeared that way.

jimlongley wrote:The thinly veiled threats issuing from the State Department, the UN, and various other entities, that US citizens arrested abroad will suffer repraisals in response denies the fact that US citizens have already been suffering such indignities for decades, and is nothing more than an attempt at extortion.

This reminds me of a man from Orange County (Texas) that was caught in Mexico with a box of ammunition. (I think it was 9mm, but that's beside the point.) He had no guns, just ammunition. Apparently he was a gun dealer in Orange County. He made it a point to remove all guns and ammunition before crossing the border, but apparently missed one box.

It took AGES for this man to get back to the United States. His family had to bribe guards in Mexico for him to have minor comforts. Part of the negotiations that got him back to the states said that he would be listed as a felon in this country. Being a felon means that you cannot be a gun dealer. If spending time in a Mexican prison (and I hear they aren't the posh accommodations we offer here), and then spending thousands to be returned to your homeland isn't enough punishment for having a box of ammo (but no guns) in your vehicle, this gun dealer also lost his livelihood.

Funny. I don't recall the world court stepping in on his behalf.

Sangiovese wrote:I believe the issue that they are raising is that he was never informed that he had the right to contact the consulate.

The two girls that he raped, tortured, and murdered were not given the opportunity to contact an advocate either.

jimlongley wrote:The thinly veiled threats issuing from the State Department, the UN, and various other entities, that US citizens arrested abroad will suffer repraisals in response denies the fact that US citizens have already been suffering such indignities for decades, and is nothing more than an attempt at extortion.

Perfectly stated.

"Medellin's case created international controversy when the United Nations' world court determined Texas had violated the killer's rights under the 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations by denying him access to the Mexican consulate."

Does the United Nations' world court have anything to say regarding the violations of the rights of those two teen girls?