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Dave2 wrote:

OldCannon wrote:

Jumping Frog wrote: How many nurses getting off shift at "0-dark thirty" do you think have been assaulted, raped, kidnapped, or robbed in hospital parking lots all over the country in the last 10 years? It is a non-trivial and preventable risk.

Pretty much none, so it's definitely trivial.

I'd like to see your source on that. I'm not doubting you, but... well, ok, I am doubting you, but only because I would've guessed that there wouldn't be that much of a statistical difference. I don't think you're lying or anything, just maybe wrong.

As a general habit, I like to call out situations where people make a broad statement without apparent supporting evidence. In my case, I was pushing back on the claim "It is a non-trivial and preventable risk" (my emphasis added). I don't have evidence that supports the situation either way, but I haven't seen an indication of the above claim either. By me saying I lack evidence to support my claim does not mean the opposing claim is true. I WILL say, however, that if attacks on hospital staff was non-trivial, that hospital (or hospitals) would quickly see a massive loss of doctors and nurses. The economic evidence would suggest that a hospital would spare every expense possible to make sure that highly-trained and valuable staff members felt safe, hence the claim of "non-trivial" above fails to pass a "reasonableness test." I know that if my wife felt unsafe where she worked, she'd quit and go elsewhere immediately. It's not like highly-trained medical staff are easy to come by.

chasfm11 wrote:Interesting. I heard exactly the same arguments in person from the panel and the President of UT Arlington at meeting on concealed carry last year. They claimed that there was no crime problem on campus (there is but news about it is suppressed), escorts are available to students who want them (they generally aren't) and the risks of a licensed person in the campus environment far outweigh any good that they might do. Like many other college and university campuses, UTA is surrounded by some questionable areas but when the session leader spoke, he all but said that there is invisible barrier which prevented any problems in those surrounding areas from bleeding over onto the campus.

Both Parkland and John Peter Smith hospitals are great examples of places where I believe that the security risks are actually greater than a typical Wal-Mart parking lot. I suspect that the police blotters from Dallas and Ft. Worth would bear out my beliefs. Suburban hospitals like Baylor Grapevine and Harris Methodist - Hurst, both of which are 30.06 posted, are not places that would prefer to be after dark. Unfortunately, there are few alternatives in an emergency situation.

Yup, and I think I need to revise my opinion. After thinking this through a bit, what I realized is that my wife and I are discussing this in context of what her experiences are/were. The reality, as some of you have pointed out, is that not all hospitals are reasonably safe areas, or at least aren't always located in a low-crime area. And no place is ever considered a safe place anyway. If someplace wants to disarm me with a 30.06, I'm left with the feeling of an empty promise. I still haven't come to terms with agreeing that CC should be allowed into the hospital, I guess because I can see so much more going wrong than right, but it's morally wrong that I should claim that people should be disarmed on their way from the hospital (or anywhere else) to their car.

speedsix wrote:...anytime...anywhere... http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Br ... 80318.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... 46004.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2009/ma ... spital-er/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; http://www.woai.com/news/local/story/Nu ... tjysg.cspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not arguing that point, and I'm CERTAINLY not arguing against CC. Bad things can happen _anywhere_. I, personally, don't like having to lock my gun up in the car at ANY time because it's technically less secure than on me. My point is that there are more reasons to not CC (and discharge a firearm) in a hospital than in any other place. I don't expect that would sway some strong opinions on here, I'm just stating what my position is: I support a hospital's 30.06, and don't begrudge it (versus, say, Fiesta Texas, where I would never go _because_ of their 30.06)

Jumping Frog wrote: How many nurses getting off shift at "0-dark thirty" do you think have been assaulted, raped, kidnapped, or robbed in hospital parking lots all over the country in the last 10 years? It is a non-trivial and preventable risk.

Pretty much none, so it's definitely trivial. Hospitals can afford security escorts and they DO offer escorts if a patient or employee asks.

I'm not saying a parking lot is safe, but the services a hospital offers to employees and patients are different from, say, Wal-mart.

olafpfj wrote:http://news.yahoo.com/police-man-kills- ... 28455.html

Murder suicide in the intensive care unit.

The antis always want guns banned from "emotionally charged" places. Those are precisely the places I feel most threatened.

Possibly, but consider two things:
1) Most hospitals, especially emergency rooms, are posted 30.06. If you're caught concealed carrying, expect to pay the price.
2) My wife is an RN at a large hospital in North Austin. We talked about this before and she brought up some interesting points. An ER is usually crowded with staff, patients, and families pretty much 24x7. If you were in a defensive situation, you're in an very awful predicament anyway, because
a) Armed police are likely just 100ft or so away. You can be certain they still stop ANYBODY with a gun and sort things out later. They are there precisely to handle these kind of situations. I assure you that at my wife's hospital, one word from a nurse or doctor and an unruly patient or visitor will get some hot taser lovin. They even have special intercom codes for different situations (every hospital has these procedures in place)
b) With thin walls, oxygen lines/tanks everywhere, and medical equipment that can possibly have radiation issues, a shot that misses the bad guy has a high chance of hitting another person or dangerous item
c) Unlike a threat situation in the open, the closed environment gives little room for families to take cover, and the patients themselves are often non-ambulatory - not even a fighting chance to find cover if multiple shots are fired.

I am not Rambo. I am not Batman. I understand that I have obligations on when to carry and when NOT to carry. A hospital, in my opinion (and my wife's) is not the place (and she has a CHL too).