TexasCHLforum.com

Haven't left yet so for the whole discussion here about carrying past a non compliant sign ... tell me if I’m right or wrong about this:
1. If caught carrying (even with CHL) where there is a 30.06 compliant sign, one is violating state law and could be prosecuted.
2. If caught carrying (even with CHL) where the “no guns” sign is non compliant:
a.no state law has been broken, however,
b. the property owner could have the CHL holder charged with trespassing if the CHL holder refuses to leave the premises when asked. At that moment, the issue isn’t whether or not a gun sign is compliant or even that one has a CHL and a gun. The issue is that one has been asked to leave and is not doing so.

Generally speaking, I believe the above to be correct (although now that I said that, somebody will come up with an obscure “what if” scenario and prove me wrong) …

The bottom line is: concealed is concealed; no one needs to know. If we CHL holders conceal properly, no one will know we are carrying. BTW, I chose to contact Great Outdoors via email rather than asking to speak to the manager so as to remain unidentifiable. If the sign did not come down and on the odd chance I decided to eat there anyway in the future, they wouldn’t be able to place my face and I’d remain just another customer BUT …
I still don’t understand why one would WANT to continue to spend money in a place where one is not welcome. In the case of the Great Outdoors in question, there are 3 (maybe 4) other sub shops within sight … If the sign did NOT come down, why not support the others instead?

Ok, NOW I’m headed to Colorado …

The differences of opinon continue ... My final thoughts on this subject:
Not all noncompliant signs are CHL "welcome mats". Someone else also pointed out that even noncompliant signs let you know what the store's policy is ... GO's faded sign was not a CHL "welcome mat"; it was an old sign that came down when I inquired about it.
My emails to GO corporate did not speak for anyone else and did not imply such.
I did not make any decisions for anyone (I don't even know how to do that).
My stance on this subject = Gross selfishness? ... An opinion with which I do not agree.
I do not believe that I am absolutely right and you (those that disagree with me) are wrong in this matter (or vice versa).

Metaphorically speaking, there is more than one way to skin a cat. However, I am certain that you respect my right to disagree with your opinions just as I respect your opinions and your right to patronize businesses who have noncompliant "no gun" signs.

IMO, this horse is dead. If anyone wishes to beat it some more, go for it. The snow in Colorado is calling my name

Embalmo wrote:

Please folks-I'll respect your right to not patronize these places, so please respect my right to continue patronizing these places.

I understand what you are saying and I respect your right, I just disagree with you ... and that's ok. We're on the same team here ... one is playing offense and the other is playing defense (I'm not sure which is which but it doesn't matter) and it takes both to win "the game".

Have a great day.

Dave2 - Thanks for clarifying

Further explanation about what led me to contact Great Outdoors' corporate office (and for those who think one should not ask a business about its "no guns" sign):

1. There's no telling how many times I ate at that restaurant before I noticed their old and faded sign. It wasn't even at the door. I think the only reason I saw that time was that I parked right in front of it ... I saw it when I got back in the truck to leave after eating ...
2. I did not write in my email to Great Outdoors, "You have a non-compliant sign and I don't have to obey it"; I asked what their corporate policy was as was curious to know if "no guns" was corporate policy or the store manager's decision to post the sign.
3. I took the time to ask in a nonconfrontational manner, what the deal was and got a good result which clarifies their position for all of us. Yes they could have said, "We don't want guns in our store" and that would have been clear too. I (we) now know for certain where they stand.
4. If "no guns" was corporate policy or manager policy (either way), I was not going to spend another nickle there if the sign stayed up ... non-compliant or not.

I'm a bit surprised at the "turn a blind eye and keep your mouth shut about non-compliant signs" comments. Whether a business posts a no guns sign that is legally enforceable or not, their intent was certainly posted so then the question is ... Why would any CHL holder want to support a company that denies one's freedom guaranteed by the Constitution? Yes, I know, concealed is concealed so who would know but again, why support that business? I don't get it.

Aggie_engr wrote:Why not just walk right by non-compliant signs? Non-compliant signs in no way prohibit chl's from carrying in said establishment...

I did and you are correct ... and in my email to GO president, I pointed out that it the was not unlawful for me to cc in their restaurant (there was wording on the sign that said it was) but that worst thing I could be guilty of was misdemeanor trespassing if I were asked to leave and refused to do so.

Yes, I could have continued to silently ignore the sign but why patronize a store that doesn't support my rights? Once politely notified, if the signs hadn't come down, I would not have gone back. They did and I will.

A couple weeks ago, I noticed that Great Outdoors (a sub shop for those who don't know) in Richardson had a "no guns" type sign on their store window. I went home and found their web site and sent an email to the company president, Jerry Oliverie, asking if "no guns" was company policy or if it was the action of the store manager. He handed off my email to their VP/Director of Operations, Gail Voelcker, with whom I exchanged several emails. His/her (I'm not sure which ... Gail? Who knows?) emails to me were professional and expressed Great Outdoors' support for our freedom to carry firearms. A quote from one of their emails was, "I certainly agree that the right (and in some cases, the need) to carry a gun is very important". Turns out, 2-3 of their stores had old signs in the window leftover from when GO used to sell alcohol ...it was an oversight that they were still there.
I am happy to report that now the signs HAVE been removed!

Their emails also expressed that in the past, they have had customers request that they post "no guns" signs and they did not do so (except for what was required when they served alcohol). They have the tenuous problem of following their personal/corporate beliefs while maintaining their customer base ... they have come down on the side of freedom!

I have written them and thanked them for taking the signs down and have eaten there twice since then. Please join me in supporting the Great Outdoors by eating there on occassion. If you are so inclined, you might drop Jerry or Gail an email thanking them. Their email addresses are:
jerry@greatoutdoorsubs.com
gail@greatoutdoorsubs.com

Bob