TexasCHLforum.com

jazr45acp wrote:What is a premise? What are Deadly Weapons?

I thought perhaps someone who knew the legal definitions of these terms would contribute. I don't know the legal definitions.

Premises generally means any land or buildings owned or leased by the entity in question (your employer). The policy that I work under specifies land, including parking lots, and buildings.

Deadly weapon in common usage means an implement that can be used to cause serious bodily injury or death. Obviously this includes firearms, explosives, knives, swords, clubs, and bows and arrows. I don't know, but I'm pretty sure a broken bottle would be a deadly weapon if used to commit a crime.

In the case of an employee policy, it's going to mean whatever the employer wants it to mean.

- Jim

Right, but if they don't fire you for cause, they have to pay unemployment. Firing without cause also opens them up to accusations of illegal discrimination.

Jim

pbandjelly wrote:if it's in the employee handbook, that's terms of employment, right?

Yep. Especially if you signed a form that says you read the handbook.

However, just to strain further at gnats, the rules that I work under say that they can request to search my person or vehicle, and if I refuse, they can fire me.

It doesn't say they can shake me down for my keys, break into my car, or commit assault while searching my person.

However, there's another rule that says cars should not be left in the parking tower overnight without informing the management. If they notice a car that has been sitting, and they can't contact the owner, they open it and may have it towed.

- Jim

jazr45acp wrote:So, if your employer takes your keys without your permission and unlocks your vehicle, finds a "smokewagon" can they can fire you then?

In Texas, your employer can fire you at any time for any reason or no reason, unless you're covered by an employment contract of some kind.

In your proposed scenario, I don't know if they would be guilty of theft, trespassing, or unauthorized use of a motor vehicle.

- Jim

mr surveyor wrote:I guess what I'm trying to nail down is the difference between chl and non licensed person with a gun in the console of their vehicle in a 30.06 posted parking lot.

Until 2005, the non-licensed person would have been guilty of PC 46.02 UCW, in most circumstances. The CHL holder would have been guilty of 30.06 criminal trespass.

The modification of the traveling law in 2005 made most people in privately owned motor vehicles travelers, and thus not violating 46.02.

Now, there are two ways of looking at this:

• If the CHL holder is carrying under the authority of his license, he is violating 30.06
• If everyone in a vehicle is a traveler, then the CHL holder is not carrying under the authority of his license and is not violating 30.06

I don't know of any such case ever occuring. (Dickens was right.)

- Jim

mr surveyor wrote:what is the generally accepted legal defination of the phrase "on or about their person"?

My understanding is in your hand, in a holster, in a pocket, tucked into your belt, in a bag that you are carrying, or within reach without shifting your position (for example, in the center console of a vehicle).

There have been some Supreme Court cases where people were acquitted for having weapons under the seat of a car, though it's worth noting they were busted, tried, and found guilty in lower court.

- Jim

KD5NRH wrote:There was some discussion on another board some time back about trying to get some stoners to work out the process of putting bong water ... the HR director and plant manager's cars ...

It's fun to fantasize, but I think it would be extremely risky to try something like that.

Security cameras are everywhere, and they're sometimes hidden.

I'd like to see an ammo-sniffing dog's reaction to my car. I often have bags of spent shotgun hulls in the trunk, and even I can smell them.

- Jim

jazr45acp wrote:But, if you have a CHL and not breaking any laws by having a weapon deemed legal and not in plain sight, then what probable cause could the cops have for searching a vehicle parked on company property?

Drug-sniffing dogs are the most common justification in situations like that.

There are other hypothetical reasons: Blood on the bumper. Matches the description of a vehicle used in a crime.

- Jim

Welcome to the forum.

They can't legally search your vehicle without your consent.

However, they may be able to fire you for not giving consent. (Many public employers have policies that make it a little harder to fire people, and perhaps you are covered by a union contract.)

If they call the cops and the cops have probable cause to search your vehicle, they can do it without a warrant.

- Jim