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I just don't see that going in a good direction.

As I said near the beginning of this thread, your survivors can sue the agency.

- Jim

Again, in my amateur opinion, if a LEO has probable cause to stop a person for any reason, he is legally allowed to restrain and search that person.

The Terry decision was a huge blow to the protection of the 4th amendment, as we all know, because it changed the standard from probable cause to reasonable suspicion.

I can't imagine that the U.S. Supreme Court, including justices Scalia and Alito, would affirm that you have a right to stick out your jaw and remain armed in the presence of an officer after having been stopped for probable cause even of a misdemeanor traffic violation.

But, hey, I'm not a federal judge and never will be.

Do not really understand the Chicago punked comment.

In Chicago, as in most big cities, the cops do whatever they want; and you or your survivors might win the lawsuit years later. Probably Chicago is not the worst.

- Jim

i8godzilla wrote:Could the 'searching' of the weapon be a violation of the Fourth Amendment?

Not in my amateur opinion.

Possessing a handgun while one has a CHL is not a crime, so there is no issue of finding probable cause for a search for criminal evidence. That is mostly what 4th-amendment law boils down to.

Police officers could legally get everyone out of the vehicle and handcuff them while issuing a ticket for not wearing seatbelts—ironically, putting them at more risk than driving without seatbelts. This issue has already been to the U.S. Supreme Court in the form of Atwater v. City of Lago Vista: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atwater_v. ... Lago_Vista" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Or, as they say in Chicago, you're punked.

- Jim

Now this is a serious question, so please consider your answer carefully:

What are you going to do about it?

Maybe I'm biased by having come of age in Chicago, where you are lucky to come away from a police encounter with nothing more than paperwork.

- Jim

Sure. Your survivors can sue the agency.

- Jim