Search found 13 matches

by seamusTX
Tue May 11, 2010 7:53 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

The members of the jury heard the evidence and made their decision. So be it.

Deliberations took 4 1/2 hours, so it wasn't a snap decision.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 00509.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I don't hesitate to admit when I'm wrong. I was wrong.
blackdog8200 wrote:1. Do what the police say and keep doing it until they say stop.
2. Swallow your pride and refer to number 1.
I agree that this is the only prudent course of action if you don't want to be buried with a bullet in your liver. That's the way it was when and where I grew up.

But what does it say about the relationship between police and non-LEO citizens?

Does anyone still wonder why some antagonism and resentment exist?

- Jim
by seamusTX
Sat May 08, 2010 8:33 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

From all reports, he was obeying orders, at least until he saw his mom slammed against the wall.

I don't know which "use of force continuum model" the Bellaire PD uses, but I'm willing to bet that same round of drinks that "disobeying orders" doesn't justify jumping from verbal commands to use of deadly force.
Consider the scene from Sgt. Cotton's point of view. He and one other officer are on the scene. He believes that two felony suspects are under arrest, lying on the ground. Two other unknown adults are present (Tolen family members, but he doesn't know that for a fact). One of those adults is "agitated" and by some accounts yelling obscenities. Then one of the suspects gets up and reaches for his waistband.

We can argue about it all day. Clearly the prosecutors think Sgt. Cotton used excessive force. That is the question of fact for the jury to decide.
I wonder if the jury was allowed to hear the statistics about Bellaire's traffic stops (if I recall correctly, a small minority black population, but the vast majority of their traffic stops were black drivers).
As much as I despise racial profiling, it is probably irrelevant to this case.

The reason for running the plates was that the first police officer, Edwards, saw the vehicle make a “quick” turn. It was 2 a.m. I doubt the officer could have seen that the people in the vehicle were black.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri May 07, 2010 10:26 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

I'm trying not to be either emotional or judgmental about this case (after my initial overreaction) until the verdict comes down.
JNMAR wrote:I'm surprised to hear that a bullet from my weapon lodged in another's liver wouldn't be considered pretty clear evidence that I intended to snuff the guys life out.
What do we always say? "Shoot to stop, not shoot to kill." That is exactly what happened here.
And the, "he reached for his waistband" defense is right up there ...
One of the significant questions before the jury is when an officer can justifiably choose to use deadly force against a felony suspect who is refusing to obey orders.

Does the officer wait for the suspect to actually produce a weapon, point it at the officer, or what? It was a chaotic situation in the dark.

Never mind that the "felony suspect" knew that he himself was as innocent as a newborn puppy. The officer didn't know that.

I seem to be getting a reputation around here as a bore because I keep bringing up the elements of justification in Chapter 9.32:
DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect the actor against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; ...
This is a very difficult question of subjective belief and what constituted a reasonable action under the circumstances that existed at the time (not the circumstances that are known after the lawyers get done slicing and dicing a year later).

I don't envy the jury members.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri May 07, 2010 9:39 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

JNMAR wrote:I'm wondering why he was only charged with aggravated assault instead of attempted murder.
Attempted murder is difficult to prove. The state has to prove that the defendant intentionally tried to cause the death of the victim.

When the victim actually has a bullet in him, it's a lot easier to prove aggravated assault.

Either crime can draw a range of sentencing that practically makes no difference.

As to the officer's mindset, he did not know and could not have known at the time that the vehicle was not stolen. He was acting in good faith on information that came from others.

The officer testified that he saw Mr. Tolen, who he thought was a felon evading arrest, reach toward his waistband. That is pretty much the core of his defense.

I wish I could have heard the entire prosecution case, because it seems weak.
Wouldn't I, under the same set of "as reported" circumstances, likely be charged with AA just for pulling my weapon and pointing it at him?
If you were a uniformed police officer on duty, I think not. ;-)

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri May 07, 2010 8:51 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

As usual, it's difficult to figure out all the details without being in the courtroom.

It seems clear to me that the officers believed in good faith that they were arresting the occupants of a stolen vehicle.

According to testimony, the first officer entered the license plate number into his computer incorrectly. He was off by one digit. Incredibly, the response came back as a stolen vehicle of the same model and color.

The defendant, Mr. Cotton, arrived at the scene after the suspects were on the ground.

Again, according to prosecution testimony, Mr. Tolen's mother became irate and did not obey the officers' commands.

Mr. Tolen was shot when he tried to get up and intervene.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/spo ... 90937.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/lo ... r-on-trial" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 93089.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The defense case began today:
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 95267.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim
by seamusTX
Tue May 04, 2010 9:03 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

A jury was seated in the trial of the police officer today. Trial is scheduled to start tomorrow.

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=7421176" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim
by seamusTX
Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:28 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

A jury trial on this case in Harris County would be such a wild card for the city, I would expect them to settle. The decision may be up to the city's insurance company.

I would like to know more about the erroneous identification of the vehicle as stolen, which led to this debacle.

If I can climb on my soapbox for a minute, this incident shows how the proverbial "want of a horseshoe nail" and a moment of confusion in the dark destroyed one career and affected at least two families for the rest of their lives.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Tue Apr 07, 2009 10:06 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

The other shoe dropped: Sgt. Jeffrey Cotton was indicted Monday on one count of aggravated assault by a public servant.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6361011.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.khou.com/news/local/crime/st ... 40744.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Please keep in mind that an indictment means only that a grand jury found probable cause that the defendant committed a felony. The defendant is presumed innocent until he pleads or is found guilty at trial.

At last report, Mr. Tolan was planning to sue the City of Bellaire.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:57 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

srothstein wrote:And I love the way the newspaper reports his training record like taking those classes on cultural diversity and racial profiling was something unusual.
I honestly don't see anything but objective reporting there. The list of the officer's qualifications reads as if it came straight from the police spokesman.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:00 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

Wow, more information has come out, and it's very interesting.

The officer called the SUV plates into the dispatcher before the stop, and the dispatcher said that the vehicle was stolen.

Backup had already arrived when the shooting occurred.

Tasers are standard issue for the Bellaire police and the officer had one.

As to why he didn't use it, I can certainly see the timing problem inherent in holstering his service piece and drawing the Taser.

Neither the man who was shot nor the officer had a problematic background. The officer had a high performance evaluation.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/Met ... 88505.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim
by seamusTX
Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:52 am
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

Thanks for your detailed answer.

The real problem, and the reason that I posted this story, is that I don't see the probable cause for any stop in the first place.

Isn't there a database of vehicles that were reported stolen or otherwise used in some criminal activity?

If in fact the vehicle was stolen, it was still available for recovery, as I wrote earlier. If the thief got away, it's not the same category of problem as a kidnapper getting away with his victim.

I also admit it's possible that multiple family members came out of the house and started a huge ruckus that the officer could not control by himself.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Thu Jan 01, 2009 8:17 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Re: Bellaire: another police shooting error

In Harris County, my guess is that you would be prosecuted into bankruptcy.

I have to say this is a newspaper report, and we all know what that means.

If, as reported, the officer ordered the citizens to the ground without announcing that he was a police officer, the citizens were morally and legally justified in protecting themselves in any way they could.

I talked about this story with some friends face-to-face today. I don't know what police policy is, but we saw the following problems:
  • The officer "thought" the SUV was stolen but did not confirm it.
  • The suspected stolen vehicle was now parked on the street, unoccupied, and readily available for recovery.
  • The "suspects" were entering a home, where they would presumably be available for apprehension.
  • The officer did not call for backup.
  • The officer did not cuff the "suspects."
  • The officer went to the pistol first instead of using his Taser on a man not known to be armed or dangerous.
We'll see what investigations determine in due time.

- Jim
by seamusTX
Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:39 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Bellaire: another police shooting error
Replies: 37
Views: 4699

Bellaire: another police shooting error

Bellaire, Texas, Dec. 31 -- A police officer shot one Robert Tolan whom he suspected of driving a stolen SUV.

An officer pulled up behind the SUV as the driver and a passenger were getting out in front of their home at 2 a.m. He ordered them to lie down on the sidewalk. They did.
Tolan's parents heard the commotion and came outside. Relatives said when one of the officers pushed Tolan's mother up against a wall of the house, Tolan leaned up to complain about the treatment and was shot.

Holloway described it as an "altercation ... as officers attempted to detain and question" the pair.

The SUV turned out not to be stolen, and man was innocent of any crime.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/6189263.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- Jim

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