TexasCHLforum.com

Liberty wrote: ... and this incident sounds something like road rage.

Road rage doesn't have a legal definition in Texas. As long as actions are limited to verbal provocations and gestures, it is not a justification for the use of force.

Finding someone with a slim jim down your car window or trying to pop the trunk is definitely attempted theft and justifies the use of force, but not deadly force.

-- Jim

omegadeluz77 wrote:So if I catch someone in the act of stealing my car in a public place such as a mall parking lot I could could not use DF to prevent the theft? Would I be technical breaking any laws by detaining him at gunpoint? Does it matter if it is day or night?

It matters very much whether it is day or night. PC §9.42 justifies using deadly force to prevent theft during the night time, but not during the day.

During the day, force is justified. Producing a weapon is specifically defined as not deadly force in the penal code. You also detain someone who commits or attempts to commit a felony under the authority of Code of Criminal Procedure §14.01.

The fly in the ointment is PC §46.035, which makes it an offense to fail to conceal your handgun unless you are justified in using deadly force. However, I can't see the police prosecuting if you stop an actual attempted car theft.

- Jim

DoubleJ wrote:"pulling your weapon" is a THREAT of deadly force, which is equitable, in the eyes of the law, to deadly force.

Here is the relevant law:

PC §9.04. THREATS AS JUSTIFIABLE FORCE. The threat of force is justified when the use of force is justified by this chapter. For purposes of this section, a threat to cause death or serious bodily injury by the production of a weapon or otherwise, as long as the actor's purpose is limited to creating an apprehension that he will use deadly force if necessary, does not constitute the use of deadly force.

You can use force (but not deadly force) to stop theft during the day time. Therefore the production of a weapon is justified to stop theft.

The legal problem is that you are not justified in producing a handgun when you are not on your own premises unless the use of deadly force is justified. In that case, you could be prosecuted for intentionlly failing to conceal.

I seriously doubt that charges would be bought if someone used a handgun to prevent vehicle theft. People have been prosecuted for failing to conceal in road-rage incidents.

- Jim

One other thing: Unless the thief is on probation or parole (which is likely), he is going to be back on the street pretty soon with a grudge.

- Jim

It's a dicey situation.

Whether the attempted theft takes place at night makes a difference. You are justified in using deadly force to prevent theft during the night time, but not day time.

Then there's the possibility that the thief has one or more accomplices who could be a threat while you're focused on the person that you are detaining.

Then you have to ask yourself what you're going to do if the guy runs. Shooting someone who is running away in the back doesn't look good and probably is not justified.

There's no clear-cut answer. The best course of action depends upon circumstances.

- Jim