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cb1000rider wrote:

esxmarkc wrote: And then I'd have to think....
They will now have the keys to my car AND the front door to my home AND my wallet containing my home address where my wife is in the bathtub and my children are sitting in front of the TV. They could immediately drive the mile to my house in my own car outrunning me and the police there by 30 minutes busting in the door and demanding the PIN for the debit card they found in my wallet wrapped up with my last ATM receipt which contains an attractive balance on it. Their process of extorting the PIN number from my family I'll leave to your imagination. They could even hang back a day or two and follow my wife to the grocery store or they may even opt to take me for the ride to ensure the transaction gets completed and no preemptive phone call home gets made.

That's pretty extreme. I agree with you that it is possible. However, if I wanted your address, all I need is your name or your license plate number. And if I'm willing to do armed robbery is having a lock on the door (that I now have keys to) going to make all the difference between doing it and not doing it?

How much money can you extract from a debit card? Probably whatever your daily max is.

I dunno.. I just don't think it's very likely. I agree with you that it is possible and if you had those immediate lines of thinking I'd understand the "shoot" decision, but it's not for me. I'd still worry about going bankrupt over some BG's mother suing me over excessive use of force or some other claim that an attorney would take on contingency (no cost to the BGs mom). Just invoking the legal process is punitive in terms of cost, so shooting is an absolute last resort for me.

You think is't extreme? How is it any more extreme than this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire,_ ... on_murders" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

However, if I wanted your address.....

This isn't about the logic of the criminal mind. It's about the LACK of logic and an unpredictability of the human predators that are out there. The story I cited is a perfect example that started out as a simple home burglary and escalated into a horror story. Don't bother trying to apply some sort of logical thought process to the drug fueled predator.

How much money can you extract from a debit card? Probably whatever your daily max is.

I could care less about the money. I care about the process and tactics which they may apply to get at it. From the story I posted "Hawke-Petit had indicated the assailants were "being nice", and she believed they only wanted money" This poor lady made the gave mistake in thinking exactly as you are thinking: she tried to apply logic to their behavior.

If you have these armed animals standing in front of you making demands and you are worried about going bankrupt over some BG's mother suing you over excessive use of force then you can limit your liability in such situations bey leaving your handgun safely at home. Otherwise they are just as likely to take it off you and use it against you or someone else. In all honesty I'm really surprised that didn't happen to the shooter in this story.

jmra wrote:My thinking;
They are in my car leaving, I'm waving adios.
Why? Because the deductible on my car is a whole lot less than what I'm going to spend on legal fees (both criminal and civil).
Think about it. Even if charges aren't filed you have to believe that the guy is going to want some kind of legal representation to make sure all the Ts are crossed and all the Is are dotted. And there will be a civil suit, even though without charges it should get dismissed, there will still be expenses.
Not to mention the fact that I'm not going to want my family riding around in a car a guy bled out in. And there will still be expense (insurance deductibles) in repairs to the vehicle (probably expensive when you factor in damage and hazmat clean up).
Then there is the whole psychological aspect of taking a life...
Yep, you can have it.

Then you're not thinking deep enough.

As they asked for my keys and my wallet and my hand reached around for my wallet it would then be a mere 2 inches away from the handle containing 11 rounds of really nasty .40 cal ammo.

And then I'd have to think....
They will now have the keys to my car AND the front door to my home AND my wallet containing my home address where my wife is in the bathtub and my children are sitting in front of the TV. They could immediately drive the mile to my house in my own car outrunning me and the police there by 30 minutes busting in the door and demanding the PIN for the debit card they found in my wallet wrapped up with my last ATM receipt which contains an attractive balance on it. Their process of extorting the PIN number from my family I'll leave to your imagination. They could even hang back a day or two and follow my wife to the grocery store or they may even opt to take me for the ride to ensure the transaction gets completed and no preemptive phone call home gets made.

I DON'T KNOW what these thugs are thinking or are even capable of. WHAT I DO KNOW is that with some degree of luck I can take control of the situation and I can END it all here. I am thinking that whether I lay in a pool of my own blood and spent brass or I stand triumphant I will end it here - legal fees and deductibles be dammed. My family will be safe. I would have to thank my blessings of how lucky it is to be me in this situation instead of my wife or daughters dropping off the DVD.

So the point where they are in my car leaving and I'm waving adios is never happening. You'd have to rewind it back to the moment before they are in my car and they are standing there in front of me and they have now given me an excuse to reach behind me for my wallet.

So.... My thinking;
Is 11 rounds going to do the job? Who should I concentrate on first? Where is my cover? Is the getaway driver going to bolt - or is he a threat? Remember how to clear a jam. My extra mag is in the door pocket. Remember what my instructor taught me: fight like a trapped animal to because my family is counting on me.


ETA:

My Apologies jmra. I was composing this while you posted - and others posted similar thoughts to mine. I get your point and agree.

So how about this... I'd be thinking:

IF ONLY I'D KEPT MY NETFLIX SUBSCRIPTION NONE OF THIS WOULD BE HAPPENING RIGHT NOW!!!