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PeteCamp wrote:TAM....I hope you didn't think I was addressing your situation - or that of any of us senior adults. A young person (not to mention four) versus a senior adult creates a disparity of force and a fear for one's life that is clearly a defense for a deadly force response.

Pete, just to make sure others are aware: "I was in fear for my life" is not a legal defense, because it's not a high enough bar for gauging the use of deadly force. After having training from Charles' (and from others) I try to not ever use that phrase anymore.

The Annoyed Man wrote:...IANAL, YMMV, and all that stuff. This is just how I see it. If any lawyers or LEOs in the bunch want to correct my interpretation of the statutes, I'm open to correction from a qualified source, but I can tell you that Charles' seminar was a eye-opener for me, and I heartily recommend it to anyone if you ever get the chance to hear it.

Absolutely agree. (We need to put Charles on a bus to go on tour.... )

I recommend that everyone, hard as it is, go through a large selection of the different situations in their mind, "visualizing" what their responses might and should be. I suggest a good way to do this is to look around at various times of the day when surrounded by people or at home, considering what might be done were someone to start a confrontation of some sort. Include the aftermath.

dewayneward wrote:

OldSchool wrote:Sounds as if you handled it well. More and more people like that around (wannabe bullies). I never tolerated cussing around my family, ever.

dewayneward wrote: Something that I have learned....people that dont carry condition 0 (and I'll argue 1) need to leave their gun at home.

OK, if you say so. I don't like condition 0, so I guess I'll leave it at home from now on.

hi old school. When you carry, what condition do you "roll" in? I dont make my "condition 0 or arguably 1" comment lightly. But, in a self defense scenario, do you think that you would be able to (assuming condition 2 here, timelines extend as you move up to 3 and 4, etc.) rack the slide (assuming a semi auto).

This scenario really has shown me that 0 is the only way to go. The only reason I can think of in carrying in any other condition is that you dont trust the gun to keep from AD'ing. I use to be the same way, like the gun was going to go off in my hand or something, but over time, I got to the point. In today's incident, I was condition 0, as usual, and with how close the guy and his friends were, I wouldnt have had time to do anything else, including flipping off the safety.

There are a number of videos out there, but it is a repeated fact that it takes a normal person only a few seconds to get to you from 21 ft away. This guy was 3 ft. Of course you have to do what is right in your mind and what you feel comfortable with, but a gun that isnt able to immediately stop a threat is useless (unless it scares the person). Dont believe me, try to do a test on how long it takes to draw and present to a threat coming at you that wants to do damage. THEN (after you discover the timing isnt even close) compound that by stress of the encounter, tunnel vision , making sure your child is safe, etc.

All of those are valid concerns. However, as with any situation, it is all a matter of balance and preparation.

I must err on the side of safety for all, just as my ancestors carried with the hammer on an empty chamber. I am as capable as anyone of making a mistake. All of those concerns you mention put the situation at more risk for error. With a Glock or XD, I have little choice as to how I carry. With a SA/DA, I opt to use the safety, as I have since I was a kid, on all firearms.

This is not daily combat. This is a situation in a stable (regardless of the daily news reports) society with outliers. One minute on the freeway will demonstrate what we're up against. As an honest (read: "law-abiding") citizen, I am under constraints to which the outliers feel no compulsion to conform. A situation involving a gun is one in which mistakes cannot be "made good." In such a case, I must protect myself with other methods before relying on the gun. That may put me at a disadvantage, and I have signed up for that risk. I also realize that the BG, as a coward, will have already worked very hard to put me at a disadvantage, and I have to expect to go into a situation that way. The gun I carry is a last resort, nothing more. Indeed, I would be most pleased that there be no question whatsoever that I needed to defend myself/my family. However, on the rare occasion that it ever gets to that point, it is unlikely that the BG will leave unscathed....

I will be prepared, not scared.

Carry-a-Kimber wrote:I'm probaly not going to be the most popular guy around for saying this but.......I would have to say he has as much right to practice his 1st Amendment as you have to practice your 2nd Amendment. I don't use profanity around the kids, in public, or that much in general; however, it is not my job to tell someone else the type of language they can use in public. If a friend or family member chooses to use that type of language in my house around my kids, I would tell them not to IN MY HOUSE. Otherwise, I would take it as an opportunity to teach my child that that type of language is reserved for adults and not appropriate for children. I don't think putting your hand on your piece was out of line given the confrentation, if it had escalated you need every second to count and having your hand at the ready would increase your odds if things went South.

You have a point about the language. However, bad language is not indicative of 1A rights, but rather is indicative of someone who is intent on confrontation and having to prove his "manhood."

By the way, the Marines go out of their way to teach quality of character; I've seen too many who say they are -- but their actions prove otherwise.

Sounds as if you handled it well. More and more people like that around (wannabe bullies). I never tolerated cussing around my family, ever.

dewayneward wrote: Something that I have learned....people that dont carry condition 0 (and I'll argue 1) need to leave their gun at home.

OK, if you say so. I don't like condition 0, so I guess I'll leave it at home from now on.