TexasCHLforum.com

C-dub wrote:I just thought of something. Please don't take this discussion to mean that I, or we if I may, agree with all of these laws. We're just arguing the legality of them. Not whether they are right or wrong. Regarding the legality or illegality of you giving permission to your friends to openly carry on your property, I wish it were unquestionably legal.

Sec. 49.04. DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person is intoxicated while operating a motor vehicle in a public place.

Sec. 49.08. INTOXICATION MANSLAUGHTER. (a) A person commits an offense if the person:

(1) operates a motor vehicle in a public place, operates an aircraft, a watercraft, or an amusement ride, or assembles a mobile amusement ride; and

(2) is intoxicated and by reason of that intoxication causes the death of another by accident or mistake.

(b) Except as provided by Section 49.09, an offense under this section is a felony of the second degree.

Sec. 49.045. DRIVING WHILE INTOXICATED WITH CHILD PASSENGER. (a) A person commits an offense if:

(1) the person is intoxicated while operating a motor vehicle in a public place; and

(2) the vehicle being operated by the person is occupied by a passenger who is younger than 15 years of age.

(b) An offense under this section is a state jail felony.

(2) solicits another in a public place to engage with him in sexual conduct for hire. Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 43.02(a) (Vernon 2003).

§ 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT.

(a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(1) uses abusive, indecent, profane, or vulgar language in a public place, and the language by its very utterance tends to incite an immediate breach of the peace; ....



(c) For purposes of this section:

(1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence;

Texas Penal Code - Section 1.07. Definitions
(40) "Public place" means any place to which the
public or a substantial group of the public has access and includes,
but is not limited to, streets, highways, and the common areas of
schools, hospitals, apartment houses, office buildings, transport
facilities, and shops.

Longshot38 wrote: Again this has to do with scope of law. Which I have provided all the evidence I need. The most glaring being the DUI example. The TPC does say the it is a crime to drive while intoxicated. However this does not apply to private roadways and property. While I can be arrested for driving down the a public roadway while drunk, I can not be arrested or charged with crime if I drive on the private road in front of my home or in pasture behind my home while intoxicated. Which is the exact point I have been making this entire time. Just because it is in the TPC does not mean it is all encompassing. Rather it is something that has to be taken in context. So back to the original conversation. TPC 46 is designed to allow citizens with a CHL the ability to carry in public areas, private property is allowed to set the rules as they see fit. Hints the 30.06 portion of the law. It allows for those that wish to restrict CHL holders the ability to do so. Which is clear indication that the law was designed in a manner as not to run over the rights of property owners.

Yes, in Texas you can hunt on private property or on your own property. You still need the proper hunting license (there is a lower-cost license for those who only hunt on their own property), and deer still have to be tagged when shot.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

Longshot38 wrote:

apostate wrote:

Longshot38 wrote:A private property owner has every right to give someone permission to openly carry on his or her own property.

Please cite the law which says that.

Texas penal code Title 2, Chapter nine, subchapert D, Section 9.41-43

Sec. 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person is justified in using force or deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if, under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:

(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or

(2) the actor reasonably believes that:

(A) the third person has requested his protection of the land or property;

(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or

(C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent, or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

Longshot38 wrote:Attorney or not Charles is off course with his post. It is a legally accepted principal that any right I have on my property I can extend to my guest at my discretion. And the CHL law is not all encompassing. It only applies when one is carrying under it, and just possessing a CHL does not mean you are constantly carrying under this law. Example is when you are in your own home, the CHL law does not apply here. You can carry either openly or concealed and I have a lot more leeway in what I can do versus what I can do in public. This is because not all parts of the law apply equally to all circumstances.

apostate wrote:

Longshot38 wrote:A private property owner has every right to give someone permission to openly carry on his or her own property.

Please cite the law which says that.

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control;

Texas Penal Code Section 46.035(a)
A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

A private property owner has every right to give someone permission to openly carry on his or her own property.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

C-dub wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

RHenriksen wrote:Eh - if the only people in the private establishment are gun friendly, and I have a personal relationship with them, I'm not opposed to show & tell. But I unload the firearm before I hand it off to anyone to look at.

If there is *anyone* else (general public) around, then I wouldn't.

The only place I've ever done that was at Euless guns & Ammo, and I was in the back in the gunsmith shop, and it was just me and the gunsmith in the room at the time. So while it wasn't on my property, it was definitely in private. I am not convinced that this would be anymore illegal than if you were in the privacy of someone else's home and it was with their consent.

I remember this thread from a couple years ago. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38771&hilit=unconce ... erson+home" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I didn't read through all of it again, but think the conclusion was that intentionally unconcealing anywhere but our own home or at the direction of an officer or when NEEDED was illegal. I think Charles or Steven weighed in there somewhere and might have agreed, but admitted that prosecution was unlikely due to the unlikely possibility of an actual complaint being made and or the police even being called.

I guess that could be true, but like you said, who's gonna call the cops with a complaint?

could I have legally pulled it out to show him?

This is a question about the law, not what to do.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=38771&hilit=unconce ... 30#p463482" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Stephen is absolutely correct.

No person can give you permission to violate a Penal Code provision, so your friend cannot give you permission to violate TPC §46.035(a) and intentionally fail to conceal your handgun.

When you are in your friend's home, you are carrying pursuant to the authority of your CHL so TPC §46.035(a) applies. Your friend does not transfer control of his home to you merely by granting permission to enter with a gun, or to use the restroom, or to get a drink of water. Sorry, this isn't the least bit ambiguous and the courts would reject that argument summarily. At most, your friend would be "granting" you control over your own firearm, not his home.

As Stephen said, the OP's scenario is one in which a violation of TPC §46.035(a) would occur (intentional failure to conceal), but there is little chance of prosecution because there would be no complaining witness. Let's extend this hypothetical and say your friend's mother in law is Sarah Brady and she comes in and sees you handling your handgun. She panics and calls the police. It won't help for your friend to tell the police "it's okay, I said he could show his handgun" anymore than he could tell them "I gave him permission to bring his cocaine into my home." No one can give another person permission to violate the law.

Chas.

AustinBoy wrote:I am still unclear about the law on this one.

If the topic comes up and I feel comfortable, can I show someone my carry weapon?

Scenario:
I went to a local coin store the other day. I have been there several times and the young guys that work there are really nice.

One guy was open carry and the other was wearing the infamous vest as well as a shotgun leaning against the wall.

I was the only customer in the store.

IF the topic had come up and I felt comfortable verbally disclosing that I am carrying (is that legal?) and he has asked to see my carry weapon, could I have legally pulled it out to show him?

This is a question about the law, not what to do. I have never disclosed verbally or physically that I am carrying other than to my wife.
I really cant imagine that I ever would. Concealed is concealed.

Thanks
AB

Sec. 46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the person is not:

(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's control; or

(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control.

(a-1) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which:

(1) the handgun is in plain view; or

(2) the person is:

(A) engaged in criminal activity, other than a Class C misdemeanor that is a violation of a law or ordinance regulating traffic or boating;

(B) prohibited by law from possessing a firearm; or

(C) a member of a criminal street gang, as defined by Section 71.01.

(a-2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection, "recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home, and horse trailer with living quarters.

(a-3) For purposes of this section, "watercraft" means any boat, motorboat, vessel, or personal watercraft, other than a seaplane on water, used or capable of being used for transportation on water.

(b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.

(c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages.