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Jumping Frog wrote:

WildBill wrote:Here is a report from the CDC talking about lead exposure in indoor firing ranges. See Page 8 for sources of airborne lead. The report is from 1975 so some other studies may have been performed since that time.

Range design and ventilation standards have improved immensely in the last 35 years. Just sayin' . . .

Yes, just reading the beginning of that report is eye opening. A balanced air-handling system with proper filtration is essential. And acoustic paneling has come far, too.

WildBill wrote:Here is a report from the CDC talking about lead exposure in indoor firing ranges. See Page 8 for sources of airborne lead. The report is from 1975 so some other studies may have been performed since that time.

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/76-130/pdfs/76-130.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did they have HEPA filters in 1975?

WildBill wrote:What is green powder? Unburned powder?

Yes.

Middle Age Russ wrote:The one about a fire that I heard about was at the range I shot at with my daughter the other day -- Spring Guns and Ammo. Apparently, some intellectually challenged person came in and discharged some incendiary rounds, which led to the fire. There is now a BIG sign on the door about armor piercing and incendiary rounds.

Try attending the NRA range development and operations conference. There are multiple stories, and even some security videos of indoor range fires. Along with some "after" stills. Yes, incendiary rounds can be a problem -- they can also be a convienent excuse to cover inadequate maintenance.

From my POV, the most impressive was a range that was attempting proper maintenance, but was unaware that green powder was being forced into the concrete slab expansion joints every time they cleaned. Eventually a spark set it off, and there was enough energy in the powder to actually dislodge the concrete floor sections. After they rebuilt, they were sure to seal the concrete joints. Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing?

WildBill wrote:

sjfcontrol wrote:

barstoolguru wrote:From what I hear they ban steel bullets and bullets with steel inserts because it damages the backstop but I never heard of them banning JHP

I think they would like to avoid steel-core bullets because they can cause sparks.
REMEMBER -- Only YOU can prevent gun-range fires! -- Smokey Bear

I think indoor ranges are more concerned about damage to the backstop rather than fires. JHP tear up target stands and lumber more than FMJ.

I was at an outdoor range once when a fire started on the 100 yard line. I don't know if it was steel core or tracer or ? By the time we could get a cease fire and sprint to the targets we had a 10-15 ft diameter grass fire.

Do you know of any 'modern' INDOOR range that has lumber anywhere near where bullets go? Pretty archaic. Shredded rubber backstops (the most cost-effective) cannot be damaged by hollow-point bullets. Neither can total-containment or even ancient smash-plate backstops. Target carriers are pretty much armored as well. (With exception of the type that use exposed cabling, which would be just as vulnerable to FMJ. But fires are ALWAYS a concern.

I don't know what would cause a spark on an outdoor range unless a round hit a rock or something (assuming no tracers). With indoor ranges you can get a pretty good spark by bouncing a steel-core bullet off the concrete floor. Combine the spark with green powder (possible maintenance problem), and paper chaff from shot-up targets and you have a pretty good starter. Throw in the rubber from the backstop (even treated) and you could lose the building.

barstoolguru wrote:From what I hear they ban steel bullets and bullets with steel inserts because it damages the backstop but I never heard of them banning JHP

I think they would like to avoid steel-core bullets because they can cause sparks.
REMEMBER -- Only YOU can prevent gun-range fires! -- Smokey Bear

tomtexan wrote:So does this mean we should take a SCBA to the indoor range on the next visit?

Maybe a SCGRBA -- Self Contained Gun Range Breathing Apparatus

If you think about it, a well-designed and maintained indoor range is designed to keep the fumes away from your face. At an outdoor range, for all you know, the breezes may be blowing it directly INTO you face.

To the OP -- Have you tried asking them the purpose of the rule? They shouldn't have an issue explaining the reasoning behind a rule, provided you're not coming across as challenging it. Of course, depending on who you ask, they may or may not know the reasoning -- and somebody who doesn't know, may just make something up to sound intelligent.

Middle Age Russ wrote:Agreed that lead dust at the line is much more problematic than down range a bit. This is why it doesn't make much sense to ban hollow points with fully jacketed/plated bases while allowing FMJ with exposed lead at the base. Which do you think is more likely to create lead in the air?

I wasn't arguing with you, just pointing out that "bullet splash" is not much of a concern with modern, well maintained traps.

I will point out, however, that as far as making rules in a range goes, how are they going to enforce a "no exposed lead bases" rule? They'd have to disassemble a cartridge out of every box to figure out whether the base was exposed or not. Not very practical. Also, the ammo they SELL may have exposed bases without their even knowing it. What I'm saying is that perhaps the rule is more of a practical matter (or an urban-legend matter), than a logical one.

Middle Age Russ wrote:Indoor ranges typically take the stance of allowing only fully jacketed or plated bullets -- ostensibly on the basis of cutting down airborne lead. The funny thing is, many "full metal jacket" bullets have exposed lead at the base, and it stands to reason that the hot combustion gasses will more easily create airborne lead than will any exposed lead in the barrel or on the nose of the bullet. When the bullet splashes at the backstop, some airborne lead will occur anyway.

Not all bullet backstops create "bullet splash" at the backstop. In fact, modern backstops are designed to minimize lead dust. Also, as far as CUSTOMER exposure is concerned, any lead created at the backstop is pretty much unimportant, as it is too far away from the shooters to really matter. (This, obviously, does not apply to any employees that may perform maintenance on, near or behind the traps.) Lead dust created at the shooting line is a different matter.