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VoiceofReason wrote:

teraph wrote:Instinctually I would have to agree with your assessment Frog, but I think that there may be a way to de-escalate it without shooting. I say this bc however much we train (whether civilian, military or law enforcement) there is always that chance to miss, whether bc of nerves or that 1 in the million chance the under dog gets the upper hand.
Personally my mind would have always go the route of escalation of force and draw on the customer beating the cop.
But the Army has instilled in me (through Combatives and getting the $#!t kicked out of me in demos) that there are times when that isn't a good idea. This is actually one of the scenarios we go through periodically, where you assault a building and a BG tackles a buddy. That is when (after the room/area is clear) you go over and plant a boot in the BG's face and then get your weapon on the BG. For the simple fact of over penetration, flailing limbs and one of the 4 Rules (the one that says never point your weapon at anything u r not willing to destroy). And because after doing this so many times and thinking about it, it actually makes a lot of sense (barring the BG from attacking my buddy with a knife bc directly after the boot in the face there would be a shot to the chest/head) and I'm willing to bet that Law Enforcement in most states wouldn't have any issues with this approach (even though in TX we have a statute that seems to protect us w/o a problem)

This is my opinion and what I would do. I would then face whatever consequences came to pass. I would not fault anyone for handling it differently or for doing nothing. I personally could not stand by and watch someone take a beating like that.

If one got on top of the other (even if I didn’t know the underdog was a cop) I would have yelled “that’s enough". If he ignored me and kept punching, I would have smacked him upside the head with my metal cane. If at any time he came toward me, it would have been fatal for him.

With 45 hydra shok, I don’t think I would have to worry about over penetration. If I was, I also carry hydra shok in my pocket 32.

bronco78 wrote:

VoiceofReason wrote:

Rikk101 wrote:I think in cases like this, pepper spray might be useful...........especially in cases where you may not be absolutely sure who is the good guy.

I may not be absolutely sure who the bad guy is but the one on top beating the snot out of the other one is not a good guy.

Respectfully disagree, at least disagree with it being that black and white.

You walk in to you home and find an man raping your 12 year old daughter.. Those with the physical ability to do so may very well find them self’s on top of another person beating the snot out of them… While likely illegal action,, it does not in MY opinion make them a bad guy. Thus shooting the “guy” on top may not be the right choice.
You can “WHAT IF” if it to death in like events….
BUT in the example of a uniformed LEO on the ground with an aggressor on top pummeling the LEO.. I believe a reasonable approach would be to simultaneously draw and order the aggressor to cease and desist. .. Continued aggression would be met with whatever force was required and available to stop the threat.

Rikk101 wrote:I think in cases like this, pepper spray might be useful...........especially in cases where you may not be absolutely sure who is the good guy.

teraph wrote:Instinctually I would have to agree with your assessment Frog, but I think that there may be a way to de-escalate it without shooting. I say this bc however much we train (whether civilian, military or law enforcement) there is always that chance to miss, whether bc of nerves or that 1 in the million chance the under dog gets the upper hand.
Personally my mind would have always go the route of escalation of force and draw on the customer beating the cop.
But the Army has instilled in me (through Combatives and getting the $#!t kicked out of me in demos) that there are times when that isn't a good idea. This is actually one of the scenarios we go through periodically, where you assault a building and a BG tackles a buddy. That is when (after the room/area is clear) you go over and plant a boot in the BG's face and then get your weapon on the BG. For the simple fact of over penetration, flailing limbs and one of the 4 Rules (the one that says never point your weapon at anything u r not willing to destroy). And because after doing this so many times and thinking about it, it actually makes a lot of sense (barring the BG from attacking my buddy with a knife bc directly after the boot in the face there would be a shot to the chest/head) and I'm willing to bet that Law Enforcement in most states wouldn't have any issues with this approach (even though in TX we have a statute that seems to protect us w/o a problem)