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kestrel wrote:I wanted to relate an incident that just happened in the Tom Thumb parking lot at Forest and Marsh in Dallas, last Sunday night. It was the first time I had to present my weapon to a civilian. It happened so fast and I'm not sure I did the right thing or not... I know I've been approached like this in the past and did not have/present the weapon...and all was OK. For some reason, last Sunday night just felt different. In any case, I can't think of any other way to say it, so I'll just spill it out, fully, like it happened.

I went to the Thumb at 7PM. I was alone and was in my VW. I parked in a far spot, closer to the street than to the store in other words. I went in the store and got my groceries. Walking back to my car, I became aware of a silver/grey Toyota truck going up and down the parking lanes. It wasn't looking for a spot to park, or so it seemed to me at the time.

I approached my Beetle and heard the truck. I turned and saw it come in rather fast and pull into the spot next to me. I was standing next to the VW's driver door and the truck was next to me. The passenger window rolled down and a large, Black man grinned. "Hi there," he said. I remembered what had happened to me when I was a kid, when some goons tried to distract my father one day while another sneaked up behind, and I looked around to see if there was someone else coming up in my blind spot. I backed up to where I was between the Beetle's and the Toyota's tail lights. The driver was Black as well, and the truck's engine was still running. The passenger door opened and the big guy got out. He was huge. "Can I talk to you?" he said, grinning far too widely for my comfort. There was something particularly menacing about it all. His hands were coming up and at my head level. That's when I decided to draw my pistol. I think I said something to the man, but I cannot remember what I said. I might have said "Oh no," or I could have recited the Napoleonic Code. I simply cannot remember. I didn't even flick off the safety (this is a 1911), though my thumb was riding right on it. His eyes got as big as saucers and he said, "I'm going to live in this car." He then quickly drew back into the cab, shut the door and put his hands on the console. He stared straight ahead; so did the driver. I got into my VW and kept my eye on him. I got out of there and they were still in the parking lot. I called up the manager at the Tom Thumb and related this entire incident to him. He said he would get Security out there, pronto.

Anyway, that is what happened. I don't know why they did not leave; I don't know why I did not call 911 right away (or even if I should have). Things were just moving quickly. I guess the Never Again moment, here, is that never again will I let someone get that close to me in such a threatening situation.

Keith B wrote:

VoiceofReason wrote: Good post. Excaliber seems to have very good human insight and Keith B brings experience.

I would like to post my reactions and ask your opinions.

I have found that the worse a situation becomes the calmer I become and I am able to think very clearly.

When I was in law enforcement, the first time I thought I was going to have to shoot a man, I was extremely calm. I wasn’t afraid. I wasn’t angry. I didn’t feel sorry for the man. Nothing.

When I got home, took off my uniform, gun belt and Kevlar this started bothering me. It bothered me for about a week. I was thinking that if you believe you are going to have to end a human life you should feel something and if I didn’t then maybe I should not be in law enforcement. After about a week I realized the emotions were there, I had just suppressed them so much in order to do what I had to do, that I was not aware of them.

Is this common?

Actually, Excaliber bring MUCH more experience than I do. He can probably answer this much better than I can. However, it is similar to what I was describing. I was not not nervous, and extremely aware of what was transpiring, but almost like it was a training exercise and I was on autopilot. However, I had to step back and think about each step to piece the incidents all together vs. one big run-on event. The adrenaline dump did hit though and I had the shakes and nausea for a short time afterward.

In my two shooting situations I was not the shooter, but right on the edge of being the one that shot the guy. The things thing that helped my post event reluctance that someone was shot and killed was two-fold: In one of the shootings the guy was shooting at us already, so it was totally self-defense. We also found out that 6 hours earlier he had hacked his Mom and Dad to death with an ax in Kentucky. The other the guy was robbing a convenience store and once his record was reviewed we found he had a rap sheet longer than my arm. He actually was on parole from the state pen on a previous armed robbery and attempted murder charges where he had shot a stop & rob clerk during a robbery.

Keith B wrote:

Excaliber wrote: The "fog" you describe is a neurophysiological effect that stems from a rapidly escalating heart rate and the stress hormones that are being dumped into your system. The higher your heart rate goes, the greater the impairment to your ability to think your way out of the situation. In these circumstances, your brain will "default" to what you have trained yourself to do - if you have trained yourself to do anything specific. If you haven't it will come up with the equivalent of a "404 - page not found" error when it looks for the "program". In that case chances are excellent that rapidly occurring events will overwhelm you before you can recover and react.

The importance of having pre thought out reactive sequences for various situations is obvious. They probably won't exactly fit the circumstances you confront due to the number of possible variables, but if you have the major elements under control, you can successfully fill in the blanks, even under stress. There are also breathing techniques that can reduce this effect and are well worth learning.

Excaliber once again posts some really great info. Any one who has been trained for combat-type situations will tell you that you almost go into auto-pilot if everything works right.

In the two shooting events I was involved in as a LEO (not the shooter, but one of the group engaged), as well as a couple of other high-stress emergency type situations with guns going, I literally had to go back during debriefing and step by step rebuild the event in my mind to recall exactly how I reacted and what transpired. I had the steps there in my head and could recall them all one by one, but until I sat down and really thought about how they played out, it was almost nothing but a blur. It is kinda like the Chesly Sullenberger landing on the Hudson; you have been trained well, and your experience puts you through the right steps to quickly do what you need and react properly, all the time almost subconsciously doing them like a robot or on autopilot. At least that is the way it hopefully happens!!

shortysboy09 wrote:POSTER ANSWERED IN NEXT POST MY APOLOGIES! The gentleman approaching you was quickly invading your personal space by putting his arms out and walking toward you while you were confined between his vehicle and yours. I don't know what his intentions were but you had to stop him from coming towards you in some way or another and doesn't sound like you had time to verbally command him to stop with how close he sounds like he was.

Would you say he was less than 10 feet away from you and closing in?

The only thing I know that you could have done different would be to turn and run away and try to retreat. Then, stand your ground and command him to stop and return to his vehicle. If he does not comply with that then I think that would be the best time present your weapon and make him aware that you mean business. But, in any case your actions stopped him from whatever he was trying to accomplish and thats what matters. You made it home safe and no one was hurt in the process.

Others, if I am off basis please correct me.