TexasCHLforum.com

Abraham wrote:randomoutburst,

Other than they were young, can you describe them further?

That is, were they dressed gang banger style? Did they seem high on something?

Plus, what, if anything, do you think caused them to find you attractive as victims?

Thanks

They had on jeans and t-shirts from what I can remember (it's been a while, now) and one had a cap on.

They didn't seem high on anything but probably thought their alertness and attention to us went unnoticed...for a while anyway.

I'm still not quite sure what could have flagged us as targets aside from the fact that we parked way out in the lot near their car (a crime of convenience perhaps?) and were driving an Expedition which may have indicated that we have money (not really, unfortunately) or perhaps they were looking to take the actual car.
Wish I knew what exactly made us so appealing so we could fix it. Luckily we haven't had a similar scenario unfold again and we hope it will stay that way!

ExMarlboroMan wrote:Y'all did good!

And the only thing I have to add is....When you leave the range, take those guns HOME and store them. No matter how inconvenient it may be, It's better then if those two guys had just been lookouts while their buddy who followed you from the range broke into your expedition and stole those 6 pistols!

We live a good drive (40-50 minutes) from the range so I think this scenario is a little less likely, but good point.
We usually go straight home after the range but as noted in my OP, we remembered that hubby needed new work pants for the next day. "What if"s aside, I'm not going to go 15 miles out of my way for no reason, just to get my guns at home before I go out somewhere. It's not just cars that are broken in to - homes are targets, too. If it's going to happen, it's going to happen. I'd hate to see my guns end up in a criminal's hands but IMO they're no safer at home than they are in my car. The safest place is on my hip, but I'm not 21 yet so that is a moot point as well. Not to mention hiding 6 guns on this tiny frame is near impossible unless I want to trudge around in a trenchcoat all year.

rir - The Wal-Mart at 75 & 380...the "green experiment" one with a huge turbine (hah!). I don't shop there much but this is the first time I've ever had a problem or unsettling situation at that location. I usually shop at the Target directly across 75 from that Wal-Mart...less riff-raff. :)

suthdj - Would have been good to get the make/model but by the time we both felt things were beyond "coincidence" as we were walking to the entrance, the car wasn't in plain view. Will keep in mind should it happen again, though. The more information I can provide the better should something happen.

Keith and MoJo - Thanks much. :) Before my hubby got me interested in guns, I probably would have had my nose in my phone (eek) but he's always been the alert, on-guard type. He's changed me for the better. ;)

Mojo - We didn't know the car was just idling, we assumed it was someone who had either just pulled in or was about to leave. But you know what happens when you assume...And normally I would agree about not stopping to go to the bathroom, but when we went towards the bathroom (90 degrees right turn from the entrance) the guys kept walking straight and didn't look back so we thought maybe a coincidence and just kept our eyes open for any more strange behavior which, as you and I now know, was to follow.
I agree - the long line idea was pretty abnormal and therefore useful in this situation. Congrats to my hubby for thinking outside the box. And yeah, I'm only 20 so I must wait until next year....

MechAg94 - Good idea, I hadn't thought of that. My phone camera sucks so I doubt it would have done us much good getting an actual photo but it might have been another good deterrent. I imagine if they had moved any closer my hubby would have actually said something to them along the lines of, "Why are you following me?" or "You seem lost, can I help you?" but they were never closer than 15 feet or so, so it seemed a better idea to observe and make deliberate actions to see their reactions. :) I'll keep the cell phone idea in mind next time now that you made me aware of that possibility!

And KD5NRH - ......

OldSchool wrote:

williamkevin wrote:Really good situational awareness (SA), and I like that your husband met and HELD the young gentleman's gaze. Well done you two!!

I agree, you did everything right, including delaying your steps to force them to wait.

One possible comment about eye contact, though: Eye contact is a good move inside a busy store, where they can do nothing about it and they can be easily recognized. However, if you're on a dark street with a stalker (as Mrs. OS and I were, in a very similar situation while overseas last year), making eye contact may precipitate action after confirming to him that he has been spotted (particularly if there may be someone else I haven't yet seen). In that case, I prefer to keep that person off-balance and wondering, until I've reached a safe haven (worked for us).

(Apologies if this is a re-post, something seemed to happen to the first one.)

I agree about making eye contact only when in a busy place, not when in an isolated area. I make a point of not putting myself in situations where I could be in isolated areas and have even gone back inside stores or my work to get an escort to my car when things don't feel right. I'd rather be preparanoid ( ) than hurt or dead. Women can want to be equal all they want, but the fact remains that most of us are smaller and weaker than most men, and therefore easy targets. Guns can be a great equalizer, but common sense is often a good prevention measure.

MoJo wrote:Good job both of you. Now, look back and see if you can figure out what it was you were or weren't doing that attracted the predators to you and change that behavior.

Condition Yellow is your friend.

I think parking far out in the lot might have been a factor - but we were in our Expedition and need to park away from other cars because the spaces are so small at this location that it's difficult to maneuver a large car. Couldn't change much there. Having two set of eyes gave us an early advantage as we both noticed them flanking us early on and were able to observe and act accordingly.

I can't think of anything we specifically did to make us targets other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time...aside from the above hypothesis of parking far out on the lot. I do think that making eye contact and making choices that allowed us to observe what was happening helped us move from "target" to "not worth it" in the guys' eyes.

241 days until I can apply for a CHL...but I still carry in the car. :)

mctowalot - When we saw them leave without anything, after coincidentally being in the same areas as we had been, we locked eyes because we both knew what it meant - we had been targets. I assure you our heads were on swivels all the way to the car until we were driving away, just to make sure they didn't pretend to leave, hoping we'd let our guard down. Despite it being a questionable situation, we were calm and alert because we constantly think and discuss such scenarios with each other. I stay on a certain side of him depending on what the perceived threat is so he won't sweep me with his draw, when dining out we try to sit where we have a good view of the place - including the door, etc.
I'm glad it turned out to be an uneventful evening.

I just re-read my post and realized why I put in the bit about him forgetting his wallet - in the future I'll just hand it to him immediately after picking it up. Rarely do we leave each other's side, but had we been separated and had he been without his wallet and needed to use his pistol, that could have been a bad situation.

USA1 - Preparanoid...I like that. Mind if I start using that word to describe my hubby? ;)

G.A. Heath wrote:This is why I have multiple guns in the same format, that use the same gear, and operate the same. If I take my normal carry weapon out of its holster for any reason another similar weapon takes its place. I can literally have one down for cleaning, another in use at the range, one in my holster, and another waiting just in case. Paranoid? maybe, but I did always take the boy scouts moto of "Be prepared" to an extreme.

Haha, my hubby was carrying his Taurus 917 that day...and he can and does interchange his magazines and holsters for use with his Taurus PT92. Normally this issue of putting a used gun back in the holster isn't an issue because he keeps one for carry and one for range shooting depending on what he feels like carrying, but on this particular outing we were allowing a friend to shoot all of our pistols because he is in the market for a pistol and wanted to see how different ones feel. (He ended up liking my S&W 60 best. )

I know my hubby can relate with you on the always be prepared motto - he's an Eagle Scout and had been known to take the motto to extremes as well. (Ever seen a kid go into the SAT with 20 pencils, two calculators, and an extra pack of batteries? Oh yeah.)

We took a friend shooting with us about a week or two after hubby got his CHL. Afterwards we ate at a restaurant and as we were leaving I noticed hubby left his wallet (with his CHL in it!) and phone on the table. I grabbed them both knowing he didn't see me take them and plopped them in my pocket. He was carrying and I noted that he normally is very good about knowing where his wallet was and was surprised he had forgotten it. I figured I'd talk with him about it when we got home and kept his wallet and phone in my pocket.

At this point I should note that, because he had shot his carry gun at the range, hubby was reluctant to put it back in the holster because it would get his new holster dirty. He decided to use an old tshirt of his to wipe it off and put it in the holster anyway. Good choice.

We dropped off our friend and then, remembering that hubby needed new work pants for tomorrow, stopped at Wal-Mart. There was a car idling a few spots away from our parking space when we exited our car, which was at least half-way back across the parking lot from the front door in a remote location. As we approached the car, the driver turned it off and two young guys exited the car, walking in line with us in the next row of cars. My hubby and I both noticed. He motioned for me to move to his right and I said, "I see," so he knew I was aware. Then he stopped and said, "My wallet," and turned to go back to the car.

I pulled his wallet out and told him I grabbed it off the table after dinner earlier. He seemed as surprised as I was that he hadn't grabbed it. This pause allowed the two guys to move a good distance ahead and we both felt more comfortable but were still aware of our surroundings.

We stopped to use the bathroom before shopping and saw the same two guys "casually" walk by. While we were looking at pants the same guys were browsing the other clothing in the area in a distracted, aimless manner. Hubby was taking longer than normal to decide and I commented on it, and he responded saying he was keeping an eye out, glancing towards the guys. He later said he made eye contact with one guy and held his gaze until the guy looked away.

When we went to check out we went to a lane where the person in front of us had a HUGE amount of items and they were waiting because something wasn't scanning and they needed a manager. Hubby did this purposely because the guys, as predicted, followed us to the checkout but couldn't linger in the next lane as they planned since we were delayed. We kept an eye on them while we waited.

They ended up leaving without buying anything, likely because we were taking too long and perhaps even because they noticed that we were aware when hubby made eye contact earlier. Their car was gone as we walked to our car but we kept looking around just in case. We made it to our car safely and made it home with the six pistols we had taken to the range (hah!) without incident.

So, lessons learned/lessons proved:
ALWAYS carry. Even if it gets your holster dirty.
Be aware of your surroundings.
Know where your wallet (CHL) is.
Make stalkers aware that YOU are aware - it might save you a confrontation.

I'm glad the night was uneventful, but I think my hubby and I both felt safer knowing we were both aware and he was armed. This time next year I should be armed too, won't that be nice! :)