TexasCHLforum.com

TheFriscoKid wrote:Which Elite rounds would be illegal in Texas for the 5.7?

Does it depend whether they are loaded into a pistol or a PS90?

Thanks in advance.

As far as I know, all Elite Ammunition loads are legal in Texas. They have a list of states and counties that they will not sell to, but unless someone knows otherwise, I think you are good to get what you want in Texas.

The T6B remains my favorite, but the S4M is another great choice. I need to try the DevestaTOR. If I am remembering correctly, they used to offer it to law enforcement only, but now are allowing civilian sales. It is a 37 grain Trident which seems to penetrate nicely but I have yet to try it out myself. The 5.7 is a round that needs speed to shine and the 28gr bullets really zip along, so I always opt for lighter bullets.

Vanguard Outfitters is making some custom 5.7 loads that look interesting as well. The 5.7 is not everyone's cup of tea, but it is a lot of fun testing out some of the different loads available.

earlwb wrote:Granted at that time one could get the more hotly loaded ammunition for it.

I have understood from reports that Hasan was firing the FN sporting round, SS197SR when he committed his terror attack. I always carry T6B, which is a hot round for sure. SS198LF Green Tip ammo can be found readily on the civilian market for those who want it, but I prefer the Elite Ammunition loads.

parabelum wrote:So....almost 7 months later and against my senses, I ... just bought one. But it was a good deal ...

I had an opportunity to shoot it, and school myself on proper ammo selection etc. and I must say, it is a formidable piece of machinery.

Shoots very flat, this round just zips along, recoil is so tame I can shoot with my non dominant hand and still have decent group at 25 yards at a semi rapid fire (1 shot per second or so), it feeds flawlessly and ammo isn't all that bad...

https://www.ammunitiondepot.com/1473-fn ... in-hp.html


I'm liking it so much so that it will be on my hip from time to time.

I wearing one right now. Welcome to the family!

ELB wrote:For anyone who has actually handled a FiveSeven pistol:

Going by its specs, I really want to like pistol,butI've seen it only in pictures. The safety lever seems awfully far forward to me. How do you find it to operate?

I have short fingers, going by the pictures I am not sure that my thumb would reach the safety. That would be a big drawback, deal killer really. Along with the price of the gun and price of the ammo.

I like the safety lever a lot. Once you get used to it, it is very intuitive. It is meant to be operated with the trigger finger. As you draw the weapon, and are practicing good trigger discipline, you trigger finger will rest along the slide and sit directly on top of the safety lever. The lever is easily flicked down as the finger moves into position on the trigger in preparation to fire the weapon. I spent years firing 1911 style pistols with the thumb operated safety lever and found the transition to this method to be very easy. All controls are ambidextrous.

In this Gun Test review the author notes he used "the FN-supplied 31-grain open-tipped FMJ rounds ". I am not sure which load he is talking about, but I think perhaps he is referring to the SS195LF. This is a hollow point (open-tipped?) round. This load, as well as all the FN commercially available ammo will probably compare very closely to a good .22 WMR round. The FN ammo functions great but it is watered down, and comparably expensive even in its neutered state.

There are much more potent loads available commercially, albeit at a high cost. The best rounds, (SM4 in my opinion) are over $2 bucks a pop. Not range ammo for sure.

Even the American Eagle brand tends to run about .46 to .50 a round. Compare that to 9mm and a lot of shooters get turned off. I would love to see more ammo companies get in the game as the 5.7X28 has a lot of potential and versatility, but unless another major firearm manufacturer starts producing pistols and carbines in this caliber, I doubt we will see the big ammo producers devoting research or production capacity on it.

MechAg94 wrote:http://www.eliteammunition.com/#!/5-7x2 ... ort=normal
The highest velocity I see on Elite's site tops 2700 fps which is pretty good. It isn't 5.56X45, but that is pretty good.

This page shows only what is currently available.
The SM4 sells out really quick so you have to keep an eye out for it and grab it when it comes up. It is usually gone in less than a day. Here is their description page showing their full offerings.

http://www.eliteammunition.com/test.html

MechAg94 wrote:I had not seen it going 2600 fps. That is some serious velocity. I saw some Federal ammo for sale that was advertised at around 1650 fps which I thought was slow. I can't see myself affording a PS90, but it sounds like a pretty effective and high capacity small caliber rifle.

I am going strictly from memory, but the 2600FPS for the SM4 is through the pistol. I think Elite Ammo advertises that the SM4 in the PS90 clocks around 3350fps. American Eagle and the SS197SR are held down to a pretty low velocity. Good rounds for target practice or small game, but they don't do the platform justice.

It is amazing to see how worked up folks get about this round. Most everyone seems to agree that the fiveseven pistol and the PS90 are well built firearms, but debating the ballistics of the 5.7X28 round seems to bring out an ugly side in folks.

Disclaimer, I am not an expert in ballistics, or much of anything really, but I have shot the caliber a lot and have done my own testing. Everything here is pure opinion, but those of you interested in this platform, might find some of it useful.

For the 5.7X28mm to function at its intended level, it needs a lot of velocity. The bullet needs to be pushed past 2000fps to achieve the penetration, yawing, and wound channel necessary to do its job. Almost all commercially manufactured ammunition (I'm not sure about American Eagle), will meet this standard when fired from the PS90, but through the shorter barrel of the fiveseven pistol, it can be a tougher proposition.

From what I have read, the 5.7X28 caliber was designed to be a NATO replacement for 9mm and met all the technical standards but for political reasons, the caliber was never formally adopted. It was designed to be fired in full automatic mode from the PS90 and the pistol was to act as a companion to the PS90, but the round was optimized for the the PS90 as a very controllable round fired from an SBR in full auto mode. It is the FiveseveN pistol which has the most controversy, as the shorter barrel makes it tough to achieve the hyper-velocity necessary to make the platform function as intended.

FN limits sale of the SS190AP round to law enforcement. This round has a steel penetrator core. Honestly, in my humble opinion, it is not a terribly impressive round. 31 grain bullet at around 2100 FPS. It will get the job done, certainly, but is not the mythical magic bullet politicians have made it out to be. It can be purchased fairly easily, although it is quite expensive. In my opinion, it is silly that it is prohibited and I would not buy it if it was legal to carry as there are better options.

The round most of us are familiar with is the FN sporting round, SS197SR with the blue tip. I think this is the round Maj. Hassan was using but I am not certain. This is a good target round and functions great, but only pushes a 40 grain bullet at 1650 FPS or so. Not nearly fast enough. This is where folks start arguing the .22 magnum theory.

The key is to get ammo that is hot enough to create the necessary wound cavity and to get adequate penetration. I am fond of the T6B round or the SM4 round manufactured by Elite Ammunition. These rounds are pushing a 28 grain bullet at around 2600FPS from the FiveseveN pistol. Now you're in business. The difference of nearly 1000FPS between the SS197SR and the TB6 takes the 5.7x28 from a glorified .22 magnum to a serious caliber, able to hold its own with the big boys. I have shot some pork shoulders wrapped in denim to get an idea of what it might do in the real world, and while my testing is far from scientific, I was impressed enough to carry one regularly.

As I have said before, it is not for everyone, but to me it is an interesting option. Flat shooting, very accurate and minimal recoil lets me fire fast and stay on target.