TexasCHLforum.com

srothstein wrote:Before you go back to Luling, I would call the court and explain the problem. judge Horne has always been pretty reasonable with cases I was involved in. I admit I am not a specialist on the DD part of getting out of a ticket, but I have never heard of the problem you describe with the certificate. If it helps, it is going to be a little different everywhere since it is not the state that dismisses the ticket, but the local court. It is not unreasonable to think that one local court is strict while another is more reasonable on things like that.

And if you do come to Luling, let me know when. If I am home, I can be talked into going out to meet another forum member pretty easily.

Thanks for the advice. I'll give them a call. I have no point of reference for the process. The instructor was emphatic about correct info and offered the anecdote about having incorrect court listing. Judge Horne is Precint 2 and the ticket said Precint 21, but just JP, no name. If I get up there I'll be sure to send you a PM before I come.

jocat54 wrote:I know this is a older thread, but I got to reading it all and might be confused (not unusual ) but you said you had to speedup to pass a couple of slow moving vehicles (I immediately thought 2 lane highway) and then said you were on I10. Why would you have to speed up to pass on the interstate? I know I'm missing something, thought I would just ask.

I left out a lot in my original post. There was long raft of traffic being held up by two cars driving side by side. There were a couple of vehicles in front of me and whole long line behind us. This had been going on for about 10 miles. Theyd' go 60 then 65 and then back again. To make matters worse there was a Crew -cab Dually Chevy truck pulling a big van trailer about 20-25 ft long driving on the shoulder (no flashers I might add). We were coming up on him in the distance. When the opportunity finally arose the vehicles in front of me were able to get around I started moving up. I had a vehicle on my tail ( actually a whole line) as I worked my way up to pass and I accelerated. I interpret passing as gaining enough speed to go around a vehicle expeditiously, not overtaking by slowly paralleling and I was glad to be finally be getting past so I factor in that I was a little irked and factor in that I drive a 2009 Tundra with "drive by wire accelerator" that's very touchy. It's easy to forget old habits when you had to floor it to get into passing gear and I was going faster than I intended. I was signalling and moving to the right lane when I came upon the DPS. I looked down and I saw the needle just over 80 and new I was caught since I presented the only target for the radar. None of this excuses it but those are the facts. It was my behavior that led to the ticket.
Of course all the traffic behind me saw it and slowed down. It took a while for her to get on the highway and she had to sceedadle and was weaving in and out of traffic to get to me. I have gone back to where it happened and noted we actually travelled 3 miles before she lit me up. She never even saw the Chevy coming up the shoulder about the time she nodded and told me to move in front of her car which I of course questioned. She let me stay where I was which was already several feet away from her. The truck went around and got back onto the shoulder. I just signed the ticket when she said to, took my copy, got in my truck and watched her make a hard right off the shoulder onto and across the grassy median to the frontage road as I waited for a clear spot to enter traffic with her lights off. When I came upon the Chevy he was still on the shoulder and I noticed he had no trailer plates nor a front plate on the truck, couldn't get a look at the rear. The trailer had some BBQ outfit painted on the side and a Texas Flag so I assume it was a Texas vehicle. He may still be driving to wherever he was going

I got my questions answered satisfactorily, but I have run across additional issues with my citation. I filled out the request i received with the citation for Defensive Driving 5 days after receiving the ticket to the address listed for the JP in Luling via return receipt mail. I got comfirmation but never heard back so I called them several times. Finally got someone to pickup about 3 weeks later and asked if I was approved for DD. Clerk says they are behind and haven't looked at my request and they have 90 days after court date to get it done. She told me I could go ahead and take the DD unless I am ineligible, which, I did. I did finally receive my application paper work from the court. The problem is this, when I looked at the application for DD the information for the court is different than what was on the citation. (the trooper didn't enter the correct court info on the ticket) We were to by the instructor to enter the court info of the ticket for our certificates. Mine has a nonexistent JP court precinct in Caldwell County listed on it. The instructor was very emphatic about having proper info on the form for the Driving Safety Course Uniform Certificate of Completion and told stories of people being stopped and finding out the state never dismissed their ticket and had warrants out for them becuase of some minor error on the form and thus the certificate. I am hesitant to send my certificate in since it's in error. I guess I get to go to Luling and try to resolve this.

Excaliber wrote:The trooper's refusal to be drawn into a conversation regarding the circumstances of the violation should not be interpreted as disinterest or lack of courtesy. It is a tactic used to avoid arguments and prolonged discussions, many of which can lead to complaints about what the officer did or did not say.

I don't know if this is a training point at the DPS academy, but if you're the one doing 20 or 30 stops daily, after a few negative experiences when conversation was engaged, this quickly starts to looks like a better and better approach.

During the couple of times I've been stopped by TX DPS troopers, they avoided all discussion as well. I knew what they were doing and why they were doing it, and just let them do their job and make their decisions based on the circumstances they observed.

Thanks. Maybe that explains it. Other than answering and responding to the questions and commands, my conversation at the beginning generated maybe 15 words which weren't acknowlwdged or responded to so that I remained silent.

rtschl wrote:From a CHL/MPA standpoint, it seems like it was as amicable a stop one could expect. Your CHL seems to have been respected by the LEO.

Ron

Yes it was.

gigag04 wrote:Only thing worse for me than making excuses for getting caught is bringing up the bad behavior of others as a defense.

Sounds like being mad at getting a ticket.

I don't know how to say it any plainer, but as I itterated in my follow-up post I am not irritated nor mad that I got a ticket. I admitted was speeding (at least 80). If I had gone to court the defense I would have offered is my driving record of 50, actually 51 years with two tickets neither of which show up on my driving record. I probably would have questioned whether it is appropriate or even legal for police to exceed the speed limit to enforce the law with no emergency lights. I got that question answered instead here in this forum. I accept that. As I originially stated the financially prudent course was plead guilty and take DD anyway. My question was whether some of the behaviors of the trooper were typical. From the responses here apparently they are not unusual. You can read whatever you want to into that I guess.

KC5AV - At least i learned something new. Passengers are protected under MPA.

baldeagle - I was on I10 heading west not on 183. I agree slow moving vehicles are common on the lesser traveled highways and FM's. This guy had plenty of opportunities to exit and perhaps if I'd not been speeding she may have intercepted him. No way of knowing what the outcome would have been. Maybe she'd had a bad morning, no lunch or who knows. She did her job of issuing a citation to a violator. But 3 tickets in 50 years of driving ain't bad. And Yeah, I agree you have to speed up to pass a vehicle otherwise it would be called "overtaking". I see a lot of "overtaking" vehicles in the number one lane on I45 in the "Left Lane for Passing Only" zones.

fishman wrote: I sure would'nt want to see anything happen to the deer feeders! And this year especially, neither would the deer.

I can't afford corn this year with the cost so high. I am gonna load them with pea gravel and just let the ting-a- linga-ling lure them in. Sort of Pavlov's theory.

sugar land dave wrote:Not to be insensitive, but the part that bothers me most is that you are passing people at 82 mph WHILE pulling a 16 foot trailer loaded with deer feeders. I've personally seen trailers come unhitched while traveling down the highway and the trailer and load breaking apart in a multitude of different directions. Any vehicle nearby is in immediate danger.

Other than that, I am sorry you got ticketed. I know it is always an emotional event for the driver.

That sounds bad doesn't. I have double chains on all my trailers as well as a hitch lock. There were only 3 30gallon plastic barrels and 3 pieces on 1 5/8' pipe all very secure. The trailer itself is an extremely heavy duty model capable of carrying farm equipment and was completely stable. I was going faster than I should but I don't consider it dangerous as speed wouldn't contibute to a hitch coming loose.

I told my wife that I would probably just post this on the forum and go my way. I guess I sound irritated but didn't mean to come off that way. I understood what she was getting at and actually very politely replied to her questions that I was going to my deer lease and going to see my grandbabies and would be returning the next day. It was extremely difficult communicating with her since she never responded or acknowledge me and rarely faced me. She was leaning inside the passenger side, resting on the seat and looking at the computer screen when she asked me what was happening in Pasadena/New Braunfels. Her computer screen was low and facing away from the center of the dash. It was just all around strange to me, but I haven't been stopped in a very long time. What I see on TV has the LEO sitting in the driver's seat with a clear visual in three directions with rear view mirrors as well while they search the database on the computer. Then when they ask questions it's a real question and there's some face to face if not full eye contact.

If I am understanding what you guys are saying - A passenger not in control of the vehicle with full knowledge that a loaded concealed weapon is in the vehicle and can be easily accessed in not a violation in any way as long as they are not prohibited? That's not the way I have been interpreting the law.

I really have no prblem with getting the ticket and as I said I was doing at least 80. My comments regarding passing impeding traffic was to put into perspective why I was speeding not to justify it and to convey the trooper acting totally oblivious to anything I said. That imparting information about a guy driving 30MPH on the shoulder would have been probably been ignored. I should 've just stated my concerns w/o all the details. I just know I've seen troopers go after speeders many many times and they've always lit up their crossbar as they entered and pursued and used turn signals as appropriate. How they interacted I can not say.

As for as this troopers's situational awareness it was one of my foremost concerns but it didn't come out clearly in my post. I got too involved in the anecdotal aspect. My first comment to my wife was that I hope I never get a notice from the 100 Club about a bad end for this trooper.

I contemplated whether to post this or not and finally decided to do so. First let me say totally respectful of LEO's being the grandson of a NYPD detective and have many friends and associations with LEOs. Also if this is long winded I apologize. I travel between Houston and New Braunfels about 20 times a year. I was on my way there to see my grandbabies and make a trip to the deer lease when I was stopped for 82mph in a 70 zone. I was passing a vehicle and was entering the right lane with my signal on when I saw the DPS car and figured I was caught. I looked down and was at 80. I looked in my rear view mirror and saw the car move toward the shoulder and intermittently looked back to see it enter the highway. No emergency lights or turn signal. I was continuing at just under 70 and traveled at least a mile and half watching in my mirror as the car weaved in and out, passing other cars. No signal No emergency lights even though it was apparent it was travelling far in excess of 70 to catch up. Finally to my rear in the left lane I see a right turn signal and lane change in behind me. A few seconds later I get lit up and immediately pull over, stop, roll the windows down turn off the truck and put my hazard lights on. My wallet was already on the dashboard so i just put my hands on the wheel at 1 and 11. Officer comes to my passenger window and asked for DL and Insurance. I hand them over along with my CHL. Officer asks where the pistol was and I reply in the center console after which I get my CHL handed back to me via my passenger. Officer tells me I was doing 82 and I explain I was passing to get around two vehicles that had been impeding for many miles along with another vehicle that was was creating a problem. No acknowledgement, no response, no reply. Walks back to the cruiser and returns a minute or so later and orders me out of the vehicle. This is the beginning of the strange part, in my estimation. My passenger asked the officer if he can get out to look under the seat for his cell phone wheich he had dropped. Nods OK so he gets out as I exited and I walk back with the trooper toward the cruiser and while walking back she uses my insurance card as a scratch pad to record my license plate number. Trooper asked me where I am going and I say "New Braunfels." I again tried to explain I was passing after being impeded and was going to mention again the third vehicle, which was a truck pulling a large van trailer (no license plate) at about 30 miles an hour driving on the shoulder, but there was no interest, acknowledgement or response, so i gave it up. Trooper goes to computer from the passenger side enters some stuff then gets out and has me take my sunglasses off and holds up my DL in front of me and does three or four back and forth looks. (DL is less than two years old with new picture). Goes back to the computer then comes back to me and asks "What's happening down in Pasadena? Er, What's happing in New Braunfels?" " How long are you going to be there?" I almost refused to answer but I decided it was a battle for another time, plus nothing to hide. About this time I looked back and my passenger was still trying to retrieve the phone and I realized he can't get back into the truck with a loaded concealed weapon in the vehicle so I asked the officed if I could go talk to him. He's deaf and blind on the left side so I explained I had to get closer since we were about 30 feet from him. (I was pulling a 16 ft trailer with deer feeders on it) Officer says talk from here and I explain he's deaf on the side facing me. Never really got a response so I saw an opportunity to wave at him and he walked my way and I took a step or two in his direction and mentioned in his good ear he can't get in the truck. She tells him to get back in the truck and he says I can't several times. Officer didn't pursue further. About this time the officer tells me to "Stand over there" and nods toward the front of her car. I looked back to the east and here comes the truck pulling the trailer on the shoulder. I had had enough and told her I was not getting between her car and my trailer. She them said "Stand there" and nodded kind of behind me. I took a step back and that seemed to satisfy her. I was about 6-8 feet away from her at all times except to sign the ticket and when she was trying figure out if it was my picture on my DL. She never even noticed the truck pulling the trailer on the shoulder even as it went around us and got back on the shoulder. I passed it still traveling on the shoulder after getting on my way. I also noticed she turned off her emergency lights and made a U turn from the shoulder and crossed the divide to the feeder before I even re-entered traffic.

Am I wrong to be disturbed by this officer ordering my passenger to violate the law by entering the truck with my weapon still in it? Also disturbing to me was no emergency lights and signals for the most part. I have to wonder what sort of training DPS is doing these days. This was a very, very young trooper. I am probably nit picking here, but although I got the jist of "What's happening in New Braunfels?" Why not ask a straightforward question instead of being "cute"? I almost said I have no way of knowing what's happening in either Pasadena or New Braunfels even if it was any of your business". I didn't because my respect law enforcement prevailed and I had nothing to hide. Except for the time when I refused to stand in front of her car and I actually posed it as a question (Are you asking me to stand between the vehicles?) I was totally respectful of this trooper. I thought about going to court and relaying all the actions of this trooper to the judge but with the price of gas I can take Defensive Driving and be ahead finacially if I should lose and have to pay the fine. BTW I was cited for the full 82 in a 70. I have been driving for 50 years and have only two tickets many years ago only one for speeding. Both were dismissed after DD and one with an attorney so my record actaully shows no tickets or crashes if she checked.

So - Am I off base if I write a letter to DPS reporting the behaviors of this trooper?