TexasCHLforum.com

Rafe wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 2:47 pm

puma guy wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 10:15 am

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:52 am As to whether or not 18-20yr olds can lawfully carry in Texas, I have fingerprinted a number of them for their LTCs, and one was open carrying sans license when I fingerprinted him. My understanding is that 18-20yr olds carrying without a license must open carry. Does that sound right?

On a related subject, some months ago I fingerprinted an assistant prosecutor for Dallas County, who told me that they had successfully prosecuted several otherwise law-abiding adult citizens for carrying in a non-prescribed manner without a license. I don’t know if it’s true or not…and I honestly don’t care…but he said that permitless carry required the use of either a belt holster or a shoulder holster, and the accused in these cases were not using either when they got popped.

I need to review the law to see what it says.

I don't know whether it's a requirement for 18-20 year olds to open carry, but I know a federal judge ruled Texas law prohibiting them from open carrying without an LTC to be unconstitutional. The open carry law requires a belt holster or shoulder holster AFAIK.

I'm thoroughly confused. Which means I'm starting off 2024 just like I ended 2023.

In the Penal Code only mention of a shoulder or belt holster comes in Section 46.15 "Nonapplicability" (r)(1), which applies specifically to first responders. Though I have to admit that the current display of the statutes (https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs ... /PE.46.htm) is a bit convoluted to understand because we have entire subsections shown that were effective through December 31, 2023, and subsequent sections that took effect as of yesterday. Makes it hard to match up what is current and what isn't.

Does anybody know where we'll eventually be able to get current Penal and Government Codes without all the "added by," "amended by," "redesignated from," and "repealed by" stuff?

"Holster" is not specifically defined in PC 46, PC 30, or in GC 411.

PC 46.02 seems to indicate to me that Constitutional carry (meaning no license) is not an option for anyone under 21 years of age unless on their own premises, inside or en route to/from their vehicle or watercraft (and inside the vehicle the handgun, if in plain view, must be carried in a holster of some sort and the person must have an LTC). That would be 46.02(3)(B)(a-1)(1) which includes: "A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his or her person a handgun in a motor vehicle or watercraft that is owned by the person or under the person's control at any time in which the handgun is in plain view, unless the person is 21 years of age or older or is licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and the handgun is carried in a holster..."

I've already gone cross-eyed from trying to piece together all the "amended by" and "repealed by" modifications. Can someone point me to relevant statute(s) that say unlicensed, Constitutional carry includes 18 to 20 year olds?

Edited to add: Found a Texas Tribune article from August 2022 that looks like it's about the challenge to the 18-20 issue: https://www.texastribune.org/2022/08/25 ... -handguns/. A PDF of the entire ruling from August 25, 2002 is here: https://static.texastribune.org/media/f ... McCraw.pdf.

The ruling was in favor of the plaintiffs, however the injunction was stayed "for thirty days, or pending appeal, for the duration of the appellate process."

I Googled the case number, 4:21-cv-01245-P, but not a lot of results. Could it be that the state was still in the appeal process during the 2023 legislative session and that's why there seem to be no modifications of the statutes to accommodate this? Yeah; I'm still confused.

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:52 am As to whether or not 18-20yr olds can lawfully carry in Texas, I have fingerprinted a number of them for their LTCs, and one was open carrying sans license when I fingerprinted him. My understanding is that 18-20yr olds carrying without a license must open carry. Does that sound right?

On a related subject, some months ago I fingerprinted an assistant prosecutor for Dallas County, who told me that they had successfully prosecuted several otherwise law-abiding adult citizens for carrying in a non-prescribed manner without a license. I don’t know if it’s true or not…and I honestly don’t care…but he said that permitless carry required the use of either a belt holster or a shoulder holster, and the accused in these cases were not using either when they got popped.

I need to review the law to see what it says.

anygunanywhere wrote: ↑Sun Dec 31, 2023 10:42 am

Jose_in_Dallas wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 10:21 am

puma guy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 9:37 am I may be wrong, but thugs like these aren't incentivized by permit-less carry laws.

True but certainly clears up the grey area of who is legal to carry or not i.e. background check for License To Carry and some thug "who is of age" and wants to carry a gun because he feels he has the right to because of constitutional carry. One more charge to tack on as well.

Even thugs have 2A rights until convicted of a crime. Last time I read the 2A it didn't mention thugs or thugless people. Being a thug, jerk, dunce, idiot, fool, dolt, or blockhead doesn't disqualify a citizen from their 2A right to carry a firearm.

Jose_in_Dallas wrote: ↑Sat Dec 30, 2023 1:40 am Sigh. Another reason why I'm not a fan of constitutional carry. I actually go to this mall, and Northpark, fairly often as far as malls go. But strictly for the movie theater. I only go during the day and almost always a matinee showing. Never at night.