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gunman40 wrote: what gets me mad is that we have to follow the law as it is written, but businesses with improper signs do not. DPS said in our renewal class 2 years ago that they will not police the signs. maybe we should work on that next session; if the signs are not legal then we do not have to abide by the non legal signs. my 2 cents.

K.Mooneyham wrote:Well, it would seem at least one issue is businesses using the police to "do their dirty work". The law should state that the owner/operator of the establishment should have to give direct notice, via voice, to someone if they want them out of their establishment PRIOR to calling the police, unless they have posted the proper 30.07 sign.

(b) For purposes of this section, a person receives notice if the owner of the
property or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner provides notice ...

cbr6864r wrote:

Greybeard wrote:Quote: "Stunts like this are what give a bad name to open carriers. "

Yep, I am with Keith on this one. If you go looking for trouble (or ATTENTION), you CAN find it. Such behavior is NOT representative of the holders I know - or want to be affiliated with.

So when exactly does one cross the line? The signs were clearly not compliant what if it is a hand written note simply stating no guns? Or a picture of a gun with an X through it? Are you required to treat all anti gun signs as if they were compliant? The law needs to work both ways not just a single path. If business owners do not want OC or CC they need to properly post the correct sign.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

C-dub wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:

C-dub wrote: {snip}
And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

Especially for open carry. After all, what business wants to put up those big ol ugly signs when a cute little unobtrusive gunbuster sign will ultimately pretty much accomplish the same thing?

Because as soon as they realize that they have to give effective notice by calling the police EACH. AND. EVERY. TIME someone OCs into their business, they'll soon realize that it will waste less of their time to simply post the sign.......and we'll then be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to support their business.

Looks like I might be getting a little tired. I can't tell if you're saying that they'll get tired of having to call the police every time someone walks in OCing, so they will put up a compliant sign to avoid having to call the police or not. Won't they still have to call the police even if they have a compliant sign and someone walks in OCing? Or am I confusing myself?

BTW, I forgot to ask in the other post. You know me. Which would look better on me, the sash, badge, or tiara?

Definitely the tiara.

You got the first part right. They'd get tired of calling the police every time if they were using the police to do their dirty work instead of posting a sign. Presumably, once they post a compliant sign, they would almost never have to call the
Police because the sign would deter law-abiding OCers from entering.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

thatguyoverthere wrote:

C-dub wrote: {snip}
And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

Especially for open carry. After all, what business wants to put up those big ol ugly signs when a cute little unobtrusive gunbuster sign will ultimately pretty much accomplish the same thing?

Because as soon as they realize that they have to give effective notice by calling the police EACH. AND. EVERY. TIME someone OCs into their business, they'll soon realize that it will waste less of their time to simply post the sign.......and we'll then be able to make an informed decision about whether or not to support their business.

The Annoyed Man wrote:

C-dub wrote:

flintknapper wrote: The police should have NO part in asking/demanding the actor leave, that is not their job. That is the job of the establishment. ONLY if the actor refuses to leave....has a trespass been committed, thus opening the situation for the need of law enforcement.

IF establishments learn they can post small non-compliant signs and then just a call the police to handle the rest, then you can bet they will do so.

Flintknapper has nailed my thoughts on this matter with these two gems.

I didn't believe it until both Keith and Charles stated it. I don't know how or when or understand why law enforcement has the authority to speak for a business about their policies unless they were hired employees of that business.

And if all a business has to do is call the police if they see someone carrying past any type of anti gun sign and the police tell the person they are not allowed to carry in there I foresee everyone taking down every 30.06 and 30.07 compliance sign and putting up plain ole gunbuster signs and then just silently calling the police to do the dirty work of oral notification for them.

But I doubt that most police will show up for such calls if no violation has occurred.....and absent a sign which gives effective notice, there has been no trespassing violation for police to enforce.

Of course, if you have a badge, sash, or tiara, you should be good to go........

flintknapper wrote: The police should have NO part in asking/demanding the actor leave, that is not their job. That is the job of the establishment. ONLY if the actor refuses to leave....has a trespass been committed, thus opening the situation for the need of law enforcement.

IF establishments learn they can post small non-compliant signs and then just a call the police to handle the rest, then you can bet they will do so.