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texanjoker wrote:

cb1000rider wrote:

texanjoker wrote: I never had an accidental bite with any of my K9's. The only bites I had were ones when the dogs were deployed on violent felons.

Ever get bitten yourself? I handled Shepherds for years as part of a local rescue group. The bites I've sustained were always from my own animals, typically when separating them from another. I did get tagged once (by my own dog) when pulling him away from a Pit Bull that was loose in our yard. I used to say that it's less money out of pocket for me to get stitched up than it was to let the dogs work it out on their own... I largely stopped doing that work after having some bad bites due to a dog that we decided could never be trusted socially around other dogs.

I've watched some of videos of K9 work and those dogs definitely see red sometimes.. It'd be easy to get bitten by an excited dog if you were in the wrong place. Bravo for your control of your dog.

I do not like breaking up a dog fight. We did not allow our k9's to get into fights for many reasons to include trying to break up the fight is dangerous. I rescued my pet female GS. I've been bitten in k9 training, but not by my dog. We all had to take turns on in the bite suit or wear a sleeve. The dogs don't always find that mark. In real life deployments you have to be very cautious when cutting the dog loose. Fortunately my dog never had a problem knowing who was who. It is amazing how smart those dogs are. I believe the bad guy puts off a smell and a good dog learns to know what it is. I also believe the k9 training materials (sleeve/suit) put off a different scent and the dogs learn to know that is training as well as you can see the difference in their demeanor. They also can sense our demeanor as it is more relaxed in training vs. hunting down an armed felon.

Pheromones. When someone is being chased and is afraid they emit certain pheromones and the dogs pick up on that. Much of it is instinct and some of it is learned through experience. Many sport dogs don't know what to do when they don't see a sleeve or suit and become confused when confronted with a real live bad guy. He doesn't act like the guy in training. Dogs that can overcome that are special indeed.

texanjoker wrote: There are a lot of good dog trainers out there.

Hawthorne PD released some good video and have backed their officers. Glad to see a good dept. Sad the officers and their families are receiving death threats? Wow.

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local ... 75441.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Death threats? That's amazing! Maybe not for that neighborhood, but it should be. That's ridiculous and sad.

texanjoker wrote:

C-dub wrote:

texanjoker wrote:It would have been a poor decision to let the suspect back into the car as that is something you never do. Reasons include the suspect can arm himself, take off, let the dog loose, ect. Again letting a suspect back into a car is something you do not do. He had put the dog up and walked away from the car. They didn't know the dog was going to bust out. I blame the dog owner and nobody else. Unfortunately that awesome rott paid the price. I love rotts. Had one over 14 years. They are GREAT dogs.

Those officers did not have the knowledge required to save that dogs life and that is not their fault.

I had a good discussion with somebody last night after work that you would have liked. She felt they should have retrieved a bean bag less lethal shot gun. I had to laugh at some peoples naive beliefs. At the moment of the attack, you are going to have time to go to a car and get a LL shot gun?

That ain't gonna happen. I'm with you on that one. That is very naive on her part.

texanjoker wrote:It would have been a poor decision to let the suspect back into the car as that is something you never do. Reasons include the suspect can arm himself, take off, let the dog loose, ect. Again letting a suspect back into a car is something you do not do. He had put the dog up and walked away from the car. They didn't know the dog was going to bust out. I blame the dog owner and nobody else. Unfortunately that awesome rott paid the price. I love rotts. Had one over 14 years. They are GREAT dogs.

Those officers did not have the knowledge required to save that dogs life and that is not their fault.

I understand your points. The difference is that you don't know how much experience I really do have. I am not and have never been a LEO, but I have been in that situation with many dogs and I have subdued every single one of them without getting nipped or bit a second time and without hurting the dog. I've also broken up dog fights between two dogs without getting bit. Not every time, but I did learn from my early mistakes. I've trained with sport dogs from several different sports, police K9s, and military working dogs and done bite work with all these on sleeves and full bite suits.

My perspective is a little different when I approach someone with a dog like that or even a little dog that exhibits that dominant behavior. That was not those officers fault for not thinking about something they probably had no experience with. It takes many years of experience working with dogs to train one's self to not over react and hurt a dog that is acting like that.

I do agree with TAM's points. All of them. However, I have had some more thoughts on this today.

It had to have crossed those officers' minds that it was very probable they might have to kill that dog when they decided to approach and arrest that man.

I've mentioned before that I trained dogs for many many years for protection. Mostly German Shepherd Dogs, Rotties, Mals, and Dobies, but also some other breeds. This dog did not want to go after those officers. He was doing that because he thought he had no choice and was going to do what he could to protect his owner. They way he went about that was to try and do as little as possible to accomplish that. He did not go straight in for the bite and when he finally did bite it was only a nip. This dog was not trained and was not confident. Had any of those officers been a K9 handler he might have recognized that and could have handled the dog so that he didn't have to be killed.

A better course of action, to me, would have been to recognize the danger of the dog before laying hands on the guy in the first place and have the man get his dog properly secured first. They might have even told him he was going to be arrested and for the safety of his dog he should safely secure him by tying him up to a pole or something outside the car first. To me, if I were one of those officers, there is just no way I could have approached that man without knowing that dog was going to be a problem if the owner did not secure him.

Knowing what I know about dogs, though, I could have handled this dog without having to shoot him. I would not expect most LEOs or even 25% to have that kind of knowledge and it's unfortunate in this and many other cases.

Robert*PPS wrote:Wow.... If nothing else, the cop traumatized the lookie loos. That's sad. he may have been justified but, my God that's hard to watch. Does anybody have any follow up information such as where this happened and a news story?

Check the thread title. Hawthorne, CA

Very unfortunate, because the dog did not do anything wrong.

Anyone know what the guy was being arrested for in the first place? If it turns out that they just didn't like him recording them and wanted to harass him then even though they had the right to defend themselves, that dog's blood is on their hands because they created the situation. And if that's the case I might also come to the conclusion that they knew it would lead to that. How could they not?

However, if there is a legitimate reason they were arresting the man his dog's death was his own fault.