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baldeagle wrote:I sure wish you had started a new thread for this. I nearly had a heart attack when I saw that title. I thought, on my God, not again!

I know. It got me too.

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:IF IF IF it was an extremist muslim motivated attack.

This was the perfect place and time. He killed and wounded soldiers that were on their way to fight in the IZ. What good would it have done to attack the soldiers at Walter Reed (not meant to irritate)? They are already wounded. The doctors arent fighting in the IZ either...ATT.

He did however limit the ability of some units that are on their way to fight.

I am in no way saying this was or was not an extremist muslim motivated attack

I wasn't thinking about the soldiers, but rather the doctors. What's the training time of an infantryman? What's the training time of a doctor? Same reason medics became targets in war. Shoot a medic and you've limited your opponents ability to keep wounded alive. Hasan's killing of these 13 people has not stopped those that were preparing to deploy. However, I admit that it is very difficult if not impossible to make sense of a senseless act.

I don't know if Hasan was planning this all along or not. If he was I think his time table may have been pushed up due to his impending deployment. He could have done this much earlier and inflicted much more devastation if he had done this at Walter Reed. Think of all the doctors he could have killed. Didn't he give lectures to other medical professionals? He could have done it there.

In the video of him in his robe getting coffee the morning of the killings he appeared relaxed. I do agree that he did not intend to survive the day. I don't think he snapped, but I don't have any idea why he chose this time.

IMHO, the biggest difference between being deployed versus being home is that when deployed your job is what you focus on about 99% of the time. You can't focus too much on something you can't do anything about. If you don't focus on your job people around you will die. I know this is true for many jobs here, but it's just different when your job is the ONLY thing you think about 99% of the time.

When you're are home there are all the other factors that come into play. Relationships! These are what get's most people into trouble. When they are good everything's great, but when they are bad people don't tend to think straight. Not most people, but many and it only takes one.

I don't know the numbers, but it seems that violence like this on a military base is much less frequent than in the civilian population. I wonder if it is discipline, mind set, or something else.

In my short 4 years of service in the USN there were several times that a gun could have been needed and once that a gun should have been required. As an aviation electronics tech on F-14's there just wasn't much need for one. I could see where NCO's on fire or security watches should have had one on them or at least quick access. One of the times I was in the Philippines and a couple of our planes were on the beach I pulled a fire watch from 0000-0400 and the only thing I was given was a stick. I had my own 6D cell maglight that was bigger and stronger than the stick. A couple days after my watch I found out that a couple of SEALs patrolling the night of my watch picked up a couple natives on the base attempting to sabotage one of the aircraft. I never found out if it was one of mine or not, but still. I thought, "And I was out there with a stick!!!" These fellows had guns and knives and explosives and I had a stick. Whose bright idea was this?

To my knowledge and from my limited experience, not a lot of Navy folks use guns on a regular basis. An Army Post or Marine Base, though, I don't know. I don't think CHL should be allowed. Open carry, though, in uniform, maybe for those issued pistols. However, as someone said a while back, it would be a hassle to check in and out. If there an easier way of doing that rather than at the armory it might make more sense. Too much youth and testosterone. These weren't a good combination for a bunch of sailors that don't use weapons.

It's very difficult for me to grasp the post 9/11 military world let alone the Army or Marines. Most sailors and airmen just don't use guns to perform their duties like the other two.

Oldgringo wrote:

C-dub wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:What we do know about the John Kennedy thing is that all of the known participants are dead.

Do we? I have no idea one way or another.

Operative word is "known".

Oldgringo wrote:What we do know about the John Kennedy thing is that all of the known participants are dead.

Do we? I have no idea one way or another.

74novaman wrote:It will pierce body armor with "military grade ammunition". the standard 5.7 ammo you can buy off the shelves in the US isn't rated to pierce body armor, if I recall correctly . It is an interesting pistol and caliber though.

Pardon my ignorance. What is the difference in military grade ammo?

I wondered. It's not "armor piercing" so I wasn't sure. Other than being difficult to find ammo for this thing sounds like one heck of a handgun. 20 rounds and 30% lighter than most other 9mm handguns.

Wow. According to these guys http://www.remtek.com/arms/fn/57/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this thing will defeat most personal body armor. Wouldn't this be an illegal weapon in the US for this reason?

So, the latest is that the shooting only lasted about 3 minutes? The last report I heard this morning was that it lasted for almost 30 minutes.

Won't he now be charge with a hate crime?

That was just recently passed, right? He killed them because they were in the military, right?

Apparently, the female officer that was reported killed earlier has also survived.

She was the first one to engage and shoot the Major.

EDIT: So far they are saying that she shot at him, but did not hit him.

I just heard that too. He probably won't get the death penalty. LIFE in Leavenworth would be good. Let him think about this for a while.

baseballguy2001 wrote:No word on caliber, or who made the weapons.

Doesn't really matter does it? But, unfortunately, it will to those that would like to take them away from us.