Hey all, new to the site. Applied for my CHL last month.
I've been reading these forums top to bottom, and the laws backwards and forwards, and feel I have a good grasp on them, however, I have some questions.
Being that I already wrote the AG of the state of Texas a letter, hoping he would reply (he hasn't), I'll just post the letter here.
I would appreciate any/all input, even if you have no idea on what the answer might be.
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Dear Mr. Attorney General,
I know you recieve many questions regarding Texas CHL laws, and 99% of them can be answered by simply referring people to the appropriate section of the law regarding such matters. I have read all CHL-Related laws multiple times, and still am unable to determine the answer I am seeking. I was hoping you could give me an answer, or, if one is not available, then at least your opinion as to how a court of law would most likely interpret the law in this case.
First, let me detail my profession to you, as this issue is in direct regard to what I do for a living. I work for a private company that does work under government contracts. Specifically, I build, install, and maintain traffic signals for government agencies in the city of <REMOVED> Texas.
Most of my job is spent on the road, away from any sort of office. I frequently work in public areas, in public streets, at public intersections, at all hours of the day and night. Frequently, I am required to work alone (for example, if an intersection malfunctions in the middle of the night, and I am the person on-call, I am the first responder to the intersection.) Due to this, and concerns about my safety during these happenings, I decided to persue a Texas CHL.
I understand the law, regarding Employer-Employee relations as far as Concealed handgun license holders is concerned is as follows:
GC 9411.203. RIGHTS OF EMPLOYERS. This subchapter does not
prevent or otherwise limit the right of a public or private employer to
prohibit persons who are licensed under this subchapter from carrying
a concealed handgun on the premises of the business.
Which basically states that employers can prevent employees from carrying on their premises via company policy. In this section, however, 'premises' is not defined. However, in other sections of concealed handgun related laws, Premises is defined as the following:
PC 46.03
(a2) For purposes of this section, "premises" includes real property
and a recreational vehicle that is being used as living quarters, regardless
of whether that use is temporary or permanent. In this subsection,
"recreational vehicle" means a motor vehicle primarily designed as
temporary living quarters or a vehicle that contains temporary living
quarters and is designed to be towed by a motor vehicle. The term
includes a travel trailer, camping trailer, truck camper, motor home,
and horse trailer with living quarters.
and
PC 46.035
(f)(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The
term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk
or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.
Furthermore, the upcoming HB1301 aims at defining Premises in that exact section as identical to Section
46.035(f)(3), Penal Code listed above.
In my mind, this means that any Judge or Jury would most likely take the meaning of 'premises' as defined in Section 46.035(f)(3), Penal Code if it were to arise in a CHL-related manner in a court of law, before HB1301 passes, if it does.
Now, on to my issue. After mentioning to my employer that I was pursuing a CHL for reasons of personal security, I was promptly met with much resistance, which included a company policy that stated that 'Possession of Firearms... on company property or at company-sponsored events' was against company policy, and could result in disciplinary action. "Fine" I told them, "I will not carry on company property". Which, according to GC 9411.203 above was completely within their right to say.
However, they then proceeded to continue to tell me, verbally, that carrying while driving a company truck, or while working at a work site, it was also against policy. Their point of view was that the company truck construed 'company property' and also that 'they did not believe that any of our customers would appreciate or approve of' myself carrying a concealed weapon.
Now, here is where it gets tricky. My company also charges me, with direct debit from my paycheck, $30 a pay period (every 2 weeks) for use of the company vehicle. I drive this vehicle home from work every day. This $30 fee is supposed to cover 'personal use' of the vehicle. Eg, the driving to, and from work, and for example, driving to/from lunch breaks while on the job. To me, this constitutes some sort of 'rental' or 'shared' arrangement of the vehicle, since over the vehicle's expected lifetime, which I estimate as 5-7 years, I will have paid more then 1/4 of the vehicle's purchase price for this 'personal use' of said vehicle. I am wondering how or if the law or a judge would view this as 100% 'company property' in this case, or if they would agree, with me, in saying that I had at least some vested interest in the vehicle.
Also, In addition to the above, Texas law states that:
PC W6.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS. (a) A person commits an offense
if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or
about his or her person a handgun, illegal knife, or club if the
person is not:
(1) on the person's own premises or premises under the person's
control; or
(2) inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned
by the person or under the person's control.
Basically stating that a vehicle merely being 'under a person's control' is sufficient to allow a handgun to be carried within that vehicle. And this is not even related to CHL carry, but rather carry by an un-licensed person.
So, even if it was considered 100% a company vehicle, since the definition of 'premises' does not include a vehicle, and the vehicle was fully under my control, I read this to mean that I am fully, legally, allowed to carry a concealed weapon in my company vehicle, and that employer policy has no jurisdiction on this matter while outside the premises of the company.
Also, In regard to their view of the customers 'not approving of' my carrying a concealed weapon. If any business wishes persons to refrain from carrying a concealed weapon in their buildings, it is as simple as posting the proper signs in compliance with section 30.06 of the Texas Penal Code, or, for buildings that require some sort of access agreement, placing a written notice compliant with section 30.06 in the notice would also prevent persons from entering with a concealed handgun.
In closing, I would like to say that I also understand their unspoken concern of bringing discredit, scorn, or negative public opinion to the company, if something were to happen that required myself to have to use my concealed handgun to prevent the application of deadly force upon myself or someone else. However, I also ask, what discredit or scorn would be brought against the company if something did happen, to myself or someone else, that could possibly have been prevented or stopped, had I been allowed to carry my handgun fully licensed and legally, during the course of my job? To me, that answer is a no-brainer. I also understand that Texas is an employment at-will state, and that my company could easily fire me for another reason other then my opposition to their policy. However, I feel that these are questions that need to be answered.
Please, feel free to contact me regarding any questions of clarifications required in the above text. I tried to be as clear and concise as possible, but as is the issue with all legal-related questions, nothing is ever cut-and-dry as we would like it to be.
Mr. Attorney General, I thank you for your time in reading my letter, and wish you a pleasant day.
I know it's a reader... but It's something that directly affects me, and I would like to have at least some sort of opinion on it from someone who knows the law better then myself.
