TexasCHLforum.com

Doug.38PR wrote:Okay, what if one or all of the security guards confronting you is also an off duty peace officer. Some of the secuirty guards at this church are...one of the pastors own body guards (don't yo love that) at least is in plainclothes and is an off duty HPD officer?

Once he identifies himself as a peace officer, he's acting as a peace officer.

Doug.38PR wrote:I know you don't have to show you chl if approached or asked to see ID but do they have the authority to disarm you if they discover you're carrying after approaching you?

Not under normal circumstances.

Certain sites may be special, though; for example, there's no way under the regulations I've read that a security officer in Texas can be comissioned to carry a rifle, (must qualify with firearms by type, and there is no approved rifle qualifier course, nor any exception that I can find to allow it) but those guards (and yes, they are Texas private security officers) at the nuclear plant are carrying carbines. I would be surprised if whatever special dispensation allows that doesn't allow some extra authority on the client premises.

I posed the question about the rifles to TXInvestigator once, but he pretty much dodged it, so I'm guessing it's one of those things we're just not supposed to look closely at. Possibly some form of special state or federal law enforcement comission, or something to do with federal requirements for high-threat facilities overriding state regs, either of which would entail some special powers, making them not just run-of-the-mill security guards. At any rate, don't argue with the guy whose backup officers each have the muzzle of an M16 up one of your nostrils, memorize everything and let your lawyer deal with it later. Odds are, if you're on one of those sites, you'll have figured it out well before you got the clearance to enter: it's not the sort of place you'll end up accidentally while shopping at the mall.

Do they have any authority to disarm you short of you going nuts and threatening people?

Other than something very site-specific like the above, no. A guard will have no more authority than the property owner, so it comes down to what you could legally do to a guest in your house or a customer in your business. They can give you notice under PC30.06, but any disarm would basically require some very special circumstances that they could argue under PC9.22, since nothing else would cover it. 9.22 isn't something you ever want to depend on unless the alternative is very certain to be very bad, and security companies are far more liability-shy than private citizens.

casingpoint wrote:Considering Heller is destined to become one of the more standout case in American jurisprudence, it's shame Scalia didn't seize the moment to wax poetic.

Yes. I wish he'd gone a little more in the direction of his comments on Kelo; sarcastic, biting, but flowing and eloquent. It seems he writes more engagingly when he disagrees with the court.

That could be a good thing, though; a majority opinion, or a concurring opinion for that matter, need not be as much of a persuasive argument as a dissent given for future consideration.

casingpoint wrote:While there are still trespassers to contend with by whatever means necessary, one does not find such eloquence in court opinions today.

Ever read any of Scalia's? The man has a real way with plain English. There's a Blazing Saddles quote that would apply, but wouldn't pass the ten-year-old-daughter rule.

seamusTX wrote:If they have the authority to tell you to leave (which I assume all security guards do), you are obligated to leave. It's the same as you in your home. You don't need a reason to tell someone to leave, and he is committing criminal trespass if he doesn't.

Per TXDPS:

A security officer is an agent of the property owner and in this role can exercise the owner’s right to question people on the owner’s property. If they refuse to answer the questions, or if their answers are not satisfactory, the officer may ask them to leave. If they do not leave, the officer may contact the police and report them for criminal trespassing.

It is understood that the owner's (and thus his/her agent's) authority also extends to giving notice to leave without questioning first.

Interestingly, http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/psb/testin ... review.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; also lists criminal trespass as an offense againt the public peace, (thus making it grounds for a citizen's arrest) though arresting for it seems rather counterproductive: if you just want them to leave, why prevent them from leaving, and add the risks associated with an arrest?

Russell wrote:

casingpoint wrote:As far as that little twerp of security guard goes who spoke disrespectfully to the older gentleman, a good female dog slap would be in order.

Your internet toughness would quickly land you in jail if it were transferred to real life.

Most likely on a felony charge, no less; see TX PC 22.01(b)(4)

You would probably have it reduced to a misdemeanor fairly quickly, if he wasn't in a distictive uniform meeting the requirements of 22.01(d), but it ain't going to be pretty in the meantime.