Search found 4 matches

by A-R
Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:44 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holster
Replies: 65
Views: 10364

Re: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holst

canvasbck wrote:I would like to see the video from when he was working with his Glock earlier in the day. I would be willing to bet that he had been getting away with pre staging the trigger prior to leveling the weapon. When he switched to the Kimber which has considerably less travel in the trigger and likely a lighter pull, his bad habit of pre staging early finally bit him. While the change in release mechanism from switching holsters was a possible contributing factor, I would venture to say that the main failure was an inherantly bad habit of putting his finger inside the trigger guard before the weapon was pointing at his intended target............but not because of the serpa release.
:iagree:

and I have some experience with this (thankfully not with a double-ended bullet wound in my leg) ...

I had an ND at a range once while doing some shooting drills from low-ready. Had done a few strings with my Glock, then buddy offered to let me try same string of fire with his Kimber ... BANG! ... bullet into the dirt a few inches in front of the shooting bench :eek6

And THAT is how I discovered that I was staging my Glock trigger at the range. Thankfully I was following the other 3 rules.

constant dry fire reps and some local IDPA matches have trained me to not to do this on my draw stroke now (keep that finger indexed along side of frame) ... I also carry all my guns in IWB holsters with no additional retention (other than tightness of my belt), so no thumb or index finger manipulations to start the draw ... but I do much appreciate Excalibur's clarification of muscle memory vs. conscious competence as it reminds me that I need to constantly tell my brain to keep that index finger straight so I don't lapse back into any bad habits.
by A-R
Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:11 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holster
Replies: 65
Views: 10364

Re: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holst

Excalibur and Keith B ... thanks as always for the enlightening posts :tiphat:
by A-R
Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:24 pm
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holster
Replies: 65
Views: 10364

Re: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holst

Excaliber wrote:
austinrealtor wrote:This ND was obviously caused by the inherently unsafe design of the 1911 style pistol :evil2:

:biggrinjester: :biggrinjester: :biggrinjester: :biggrinjester: :biggrinjester:

But in all seriousness, listening to the shooter's own analysis of how/why this happened, this type of situation is why I've always been a bit leery of cross training with a 1911-type gun and a gun with no thumb safety (like a Glock or DA revolver) - two different types of muscle memory and battery of arms. Throw in two distinctly different types of retention release devices on what are otherwise similar holsters and you've got a lot of different movements to keep straight between the two set ups.

Edited to add: and kudos to the guy for posting this video on YouTube so we all can learn from his mistakes :tiphat:
I would attribute 80% of this incident to trying to work at speed with apparently insufficient training in two substantially different gun and holster systems that require substantially different movements to perform the required task.

Various types of failures are often the result when one tries to take task execution beyond a conscious step by step process and work from "muscle memory" or whatever one prefers to call a trained stimulus / response sequence under these circumstances.

This holds true with any psychomotor skill, but when guns are involved, the results are often serious and permanent.
Excaliber, thank you for the comment. It may just be that I'm a bit too loose with my choice of words "muscle memory". I'd appreciate some elaboration if you don't mind sharing on the differences - as you understand them - between "muscle memory" and "step-by-step process" .... I've always sort of used the terms "muscle memory" to refer to a learned and applied step-by-step process that just becomes "second nature" after enough repetitions - thus muscle MEMORY. Are you saying that this phenomenon itself is dangerous or are you saying that muscle memory and step-by-step process are distinctly different phenomenon altogether?
by A-R
Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:59 am
Forum: General Gun, Shooting & Equipment Discussion
Topic: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holster
Replies: 65
Views: 10364

Re: Video: Guy shoot himself on leg while drawing from holst

This ND was obviously caused by the inherently unsafe design of the 1911 style pistol :evil2:

:biggrinjester: :biggrinjester: :biggrinjester: :biggrinjester: :biggrinjester:

But in all seriousness, listening to the shooter's own analysis of how/why this happened, this type of situation is why I've always been a bit leery of cross training with a 1911-type gun and a gun with no thumb safety (like a Glock or DA revolver) - two different types of muscle memory and battery of arms. Throw in two distinctly different types of retention release devices on what are otherwise similar holsters and you've got a lot of different movements to keep straight between the two set ups.

Edited to add: and kudos to the guy for posting this video on YouTube so we all can learn from his mistakes :tiphat:

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