TexasCHLforum.com

seamusTX wrote:What do you do after you produce a weapon and start issuing commands, and no one obeys you?

To put it bluntly, what do you think is going to happen when a white man in plain clothes pulls a gun in a crowd of angry and excited black people?

What are the friends or relatives of the combatants going to do?

Please don't call me a racist. This is a real situation that police officers often face. And the police have more legal authority behind them and can call for backup.

- Jim

EVERYONE should read and think long and hard about what Jim has written above. Very good advice.

txflyer and glbedd53 .... two conflicting posts, but both VERY worthwhile for consideration .... this is not an easy black-n-white situation - a lot of gray area involved .... on some level I agree with both of you.

Wow, that is a disturbing video. Hope those women are arrested and charged with attempted murder or worse.

After seeing the video, does change my initial stock answer a bit. But still not completely convinced that rushing into to "break it up" or pulling a gun in this situation is best solution.

Others tried to break it up, including what appears to be an older woman (in white warm up suit) and they even get into a brief shoving match with her. So this tells me two things: 1. these aggressive women did have capability to be aggressive toward others (not just the girl in blue top) but 2. they weren't so aggressive that they turned toward others with same lethal force as used on the target of their aggression (girl in blue top).

At some point, if cops or other help didn't arrive quickly, perhaps I would have pulled a gun and told them all to leave or I'd shoot. But before doing so you must decide:

1. will any of THEM pull a gun out of a purse and point/shoot at you? this is especially dangerous if you're holding one or two at gunpoint and a third is to your side just outside your field of view.

2. are there other spectators/hangers on who are WITH what appear to be three aggressive women committing the assault? how will THEY react if you pull a gun? Is there some gangbanger boyfriend waiting in the car outside who would see you pull a gun, then charge in with his own guns blazing?

3. if you're going to draw in this situation, do it from a position of strength and cover/concealment from not only the three or so assaultive women, but also from any associates who may enter the fray from other directions

All of the above is just my own thought processes. I have no formal training in such matters (big reason why I would still hesitate to intervene) other than random reading I've done.

Still say this type of situation should be approached with EXTREME caution, but after seeing just how vicious this beat down was I admit I'd have a hard time just "calling 911 and being a good witness" ... morals/ethics would push me very hard to intervene.

Call 911. Be a good witness. Only pull my weapon if there is a direct threat of imminent death or serious bodily injury to me or one of my friends/family.

I'm not likely to get involved in breaking up a fight between two unknown third parties - too much potential for blowback on me.

Caveat being if I KNOW more information than I assume you'd know in the given scenario and one "innocent" third party is in imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury by an aggressive third party. But it's difficult to truly KNOW enough information to determine who's who with enough certainty to use lethal force against one of them. Not saying it can't be done; just saying you'd better be CERTAIN of the facts of a third-party situation before you pull a gun and try to intervene.

Another good way to think about it is this .... would you intervene in the situation if you DID NOT have a gun? Does intervening with a holstered gun also put you at more risk (i.e. someone grabs your gun out of the holster during a scuffle)?

A lot to think about. The ramifications of making the wrong decision are life-altering for you AND the other unknown persons.