TexasCHLforum.com

sailor2000 wrote:There are some folks who just plain shouldn't be armed.

sailor2000, I get what you're saying. I understand your anxiety over dumb & dumberer having access to weapons around you. And you as a business owner are certainly within your right to deny service to someone, as long as you don't violate their civil rights in the process (read: no "whites only" lunch counters etc).

But, until society at large determines that an individual should no longer have access to arms via the court system, what right is it of yours to determine who shall and who shall not have the Right to Keep and Bear Arms? Again, I'm not saying you as a business owner don't have the right to deny service or entrance to your property to anyone. But in a scenario of you renting property from the government - basically renting from all us taxpayers - then you give up your right to deny our entrance while legally carrying. Furthermore, the thought process of "some folks shouldn't have guns" is exactly the slippery slope I was referring to in my earlier post.

Someone was loading live ammo into their gun at your booth? Did you have them ejected from the premises I hope? As far as how to stop this from happening without infringing on EVERYONE's RKBA .... why not put the live ammo someplace where every Tom, Dick, and Harry can't put their grubby hands on it without asking you first?

Sorry, your arguments just ring hollow to me. The mere fact that stupid people exist in this world and sometimes attend gun shows is not reason enough to deny me MY RIGHTS.

sailor2000 wrote:The show premise is hired / rented / leased BY the show promoter, making it his (or her) premise for the duration of the event. The promoter posts the 30.06, not the government entity. I would regard it as valid (I R NOT A LAWYER).

IANAL either, but AFAIK you are wrong on the legal facts on this one. TPC 30.06 (e) does not make an exception for someone who leases property from a government entity. Basically if a government entity owns it, then NO ONE can give a legally enforceable 30.06 notice for that property. Again, IANAL, but this is my understanding of the relevant statute.

Texas Penal Code 30.06 (e) It is an exception to the application of this section that the property on which the license holder carries a handgun is owned or leased by a governmental entity and is not a premises or other place on which the license holder is prohibited from carrying the handgun under Section 46.03 or 46.035.

And, of course, gun show promoters, rent-a-cops, etc. can tell you to leave for some other reason and then if you don't they can charge you under PC 30.05 ... but that's a whole different set of circumstances and a whole other discussion.

sailor2000 wrote:BTW, as a former gun show circuit dealer (40+ weekends a year for 2+ years) I LIKE that the public is prevented (as well as is practical) from bringing loaded or operable weapons into the shows. I witnessed too many (1 was way more than enough) NDs by dealers during show set-up as it was.

Not all CHL holders are as smart or safe as we might wish. I know YOU are, it is that guy next to you that wants to see how his loaded carry piece fits in the holster on my table that worries me.

If you don't trust people, then why would you want to sell them (or facilitate a sale to them of) firearms?

These same people you don't trust to enter your gun show with a loaded weapon are right next to you in line at the grocery store with a loaded gun, at the movies, at church, AND at just about any gun store in this state. How is it that so many people carry in gun stores and never have an ND, but if they do the same at a gun show, NDs are bound to happen?

Sorry, but I don't buy the argument that we all must be CONTROLLED because SOME of us may not be safe. That's a very slippery slope to a complete ban on all guns because they're too dangerous in the hands of SOME people.

RiveraRa wrote:I searched and couldn't find but 1 or 2 mentions of the Saxet Gun Show at the Travis County Expo Center (TCEC).
I hear that the TCEC is posted with a 30.06 but that it is owned by the county (government). Therefore, the sign is invalid.

First off, am I correct in my thinking?

As far as I'm concerned you are, but I'm not a lawyer, nor a gun show promotor, nor a LEO who checks in guns at a gun show (see below)

RiveraRa wrote:Secondly, if this is true, then I am ok to carry inside (concealed means concealed) until they ask me to leave or disarm correct?

If they physically ask me if I'm carrying concealed, I'm free to answer however I like correct (as long as its not an LEO)?

They are posted 30.06 and do have LEOs at the doors checking for guns and putting zip ties on them. If the officer asks if you have a gun and you do but say you do not, you're breaking the law. Again, IANAL.

RiveraRa wrote:Has anyone had any experience yet with this particular situation/venue?

Yes, I went to the last show and had a 5-minute conversation with the guy who claimed to be in chareg of the gun show (no reason to think he wasn't, I just didn't independently verify this info) and the two APD officers on hand to check guns. I told them I was a CHL instructor and read to them the relevant statutes (keep a copy handy in my iPhone) and all three continued to disagree with me saying basicallly "the gun show promotor is in charge of this building during the show, he is responsible for it, therefore he can and will deny you entrance if you're carrying a loaded weapon". Asked if I would be arrested for ignoring the prohibition on guns and carrying anyway, one APD officer said I would be trespassing (then told me I was wrong when I explained my interpretation of 30.05 and 30.06 says I'm not trespassing), and the gun show promotor basically said he would ask me to disarm and if I refused he'd have me escorted off the property but "wouldn't press charges."

Important to note that I DID follow their "policy" and was NOT carrying at the time of this conversation.

As an aside, I was disappointed in the show anyway. Still better than the show at the Target on William Canon & I-35, but not as good as the old Saxet shows. A lot of overpriced Chinese junk parts (was looking for an elevation adjustable rear iron sight for an AR-15 - some tables wanted $100 for NCStar junk).

I likely won't be back unless there is something I REALLY need.

Also please note all of the "quoted" material above is from my not-so-good memory of this conversation that happened about a month ago.