TexasCHLforum.com

austinrealtor wrote:well, I got a responce today - sorta. Lady from Eye Care Centers of America called and left a message and asked me to call her back. When I did so about an hour later, got her voice mail. So I guess now we're playing phone tag.

A phone call was more than I was expecting; thought I'd just get a form letter blow off. So I am a bit encouraged that I might actually be given the opportunity to further enlighten someone; but knowing full well they won't likely be changing their policy.

Anyway, it's a start (I hope). Will of course update here when I finally talk to her.

Finally spoke to the woman from Eye Care Centers of America by phone today. She was very nice, but didn't really have any information for me other than a verbal response from those above her that ECCA would keep the signs posted "for the safety of their employees and customers" and because of "liability". I played along and protested a bit to her on the phone, asking if they even understood what a CHL was and who they were excluding? Her role seemed to be merely to transcribe my comments and "pass them along".

Anyway, I've typed a follow up letter with talking points outlining the reasons I feel their "safety" and "liability" reasons hold no water. Not expecting much more, but trying to present our collective disagreement with 30.06 signs in a civil and respectful manner to these corporate higher ups. Gotta fight the good fight, even if there is little hope of any change.

Will of course let y'all know if anything else comes of this.

well, I got a responce today - sorta. Lady from Eye Care Centers of America called and left a message and asked me to call her back. When I did so about an hour later, got her voice mail. So I guess now we're playing phone tag.

A phone call was more than I was expecting; thought I'd just get a form letter blow off. So I am a bit encouraged that I might actually be given the opportunity to further enlighten someone; but knowing full well they won't likely be changing their policy.

Anyway, it's a start (I hope). Will of course update here when I finally talk to her.

Update: I sent out a version of the second shorter letter to all the indicated folks on Friday. Will update this thread if I hear anything in response.

Thanks to all for your input and feedback.

Russell wrote:Also, companies dread having their name on the internet in a negative way. Perhaps consider also telling them that they now have 5 locations individuals have found and posted at texas3006.com. One more location... and since E comes before J... they make it to the "Wall of Shame" at the top of the site!

Wow, thought they only had three hits on the site. Didn't know it was five until I just searched again. Thanks Russell.

seamusTX wrote:It seems only certain corporations with out-of-state headquarters are, shall we say, anal about this stuff.

- Jim

actually, the corporate headquarters of the parent company ECCA are in San Antonio, though that company is a subsidiary of some company called Highmark and who knows where they're from.

PUCKER wrote: BTW - appointment made for eye doc tomorrow, he's right next to the local (Grapevine) Eyemasters...I'll check to see if they have a 30.06 sign. Will take/post a pic if they do.

If they do have a 30.06 sign, be sure to post it on http://www.texas3006.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

seamusTX wrote:

PUCKER wrote:You might also mention that this letter is also posted to the TX CHL Forum (with _____ number of members, all law-abiding citizens, etc.....how many are "we"??).

Over 6,000 members, which is a whopping 0.03% of the population of the entire state.

This is strictly my personal opinion, but I do not mention this forum to anyone who is not already pro-RKBA. Some of the controversies that are discussed in public here are, shall we say, difficult for outsiders to understand.

- Jim

and non CHLs have no business on http://www.texas3006.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; either.

bdickens wrote: Wrong. If someone had "done their homework," they'd have posted a compliant sign. Almost only counts in Horseshoes.

If we're discussing validity of the sign, absolutely agree with you.

If we're discussing my future business with EyeMasters, there are plenty of other places to buy eyeglasses. Almost is close enough to lose me as a customer.

bdickens wrote:Since the sign is non-compliant, I'd have let sleeping dogs lie.

Normally, I'd agree with you. But after checking http://www.texas3006.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; this is their third store location that has been reported as posting some sort of 30.06 sign. Other two apparently are legit (though I've not seen them personally). I'm thinking this could be some new corporate edict that is slowly trickling down to the individual stores, thus felt the need to let the chairman/ceo and president/coo know how I feel.

Plus, regardless of compliant/non-compliant nature of their sign, the mere fact that they posted it at all makes me want to cease doing business with them until they remove the sign. Gunbusters and "no guns allowed" signs I just walk right past and don't worry about it nor make a stink. But this is a more coordinated effort that almost gets the 30.06 requirements right. So someone did their homework and specifically wants to ban CHL from their store, not just post a gunbusters sign to make the antis happy.

Edited version. This one fits on one page. Let me know your thoughts (and thanks Old Gringo for the constructive criticism - exactly what this old - but out-of-practice - journalist needed).

***

January 13, 2010

Ms. Betsy Perkins
General Manager
EyeMasters – Arbor Walk location
10515 North Mopac Expressway, Ste.115
Austin, TX 78759

CC:
David L. Holmberg, President and CEO HVHC Inc. / Chairman and CEO Eye Care Centers of America
Jim N. Eisen, President and COO Eye Care Centers of America
Jim Carroll, John Di Ianni, Charles M. Kellstadt, and J.Richard Llanes, regional vice presidents

I am writing to inform you that today I ended a 10-year business relationship with EyeMasters because of the sign posted at the front of your location in the Arbor Walk shopping center, advising via Texas Penal Code 30.06 that law-abiding citizens who are licensed by the state of Texas to legally carry concealed handguns are not welcome in your store.

Please take a moment to read why I am making this decision, despite what has been a mostly positive customer experience with EyeMasters dating back to 1999, including the purchase of three pairs of high-priced Flexon eyeglasses frames, multiple replacement lenses, plus contact lenses and eyeglasses for my wife, totaling well in excess of $1,500 from my pockets spent in your retail stores plus additional reimbursement to EyeMasters from various vision insurance companies over 10 years.

While losing one customer may not seem like much to a large corporation like Highmark, Inc., HVHC, Inc., or Eye Care Centers of America, Inc., understand that I have already begun informing through various networking channels many of the more than 300,000 concealed handgun license holders in Texas that your company does not respect our legal rights nor wish to do business with anyone who exercises those rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution and codified in Texas law.

I obtained my concealed handgun license in 1998. To do so, I took a lengthy class on Texas law, use of deadly force, and conflict resolution; demonstrated my proficiency with a handgun on a live shooting range; provided fingerprints, passport photos, and my employment and residence history for the preceding 10 years; and submitted to a thorough background check by the Federal Bureau of Investigations and the Texas Department of Public Safety. After all this, the state deemed me a law abiding citizen and issued my license. Every four years since then, I have repeated this same process to renew my license. Statistics available from the DPS reveal that concealed handgun license holders as a whole are much more law-abiding than the general population.

To put it bluntly: I’m one of the good guys. And for more than 10 years I have legally carried a handgun without incident, including inside many EyeMasters locations. I legally carry a firearm because I value my life, my safety, and the lives and safety of family, friends, and fellow Texans. No one knows when the next lunatic might walk into any retail establishment. Just ask the families of the 23 victims of the 1991 massacre at Luby’s in Killeen. No sign is going to stop a criminal. Your sign only prevents law abiding citizens from entering your store.

I choose to be prepared. The sign on the front of your store denies me my right to be prepared to defend my life. And that is simply unacceptable to me. I will take my business elsewhere.

Respectfully,

Oldgringo wrote:IMHO, too long, way too long.

Concise and to the point may get someones' attention. No one wants to be lectured nor do they want a history lesson.

That is my 2¢ worth.

I'm having similar thoughts. What if I cut out all the snarky paragraphs where I throw their own corporate "code of conduct" stuff back in their face? If I do so, I might have a fighting chance to get this down to a single page.

Also, the paragraph about how I obtained a CHL seems long, but I think that type of thing is always necessary to the uninitiated who think getting a CHL is like getting a driver's license and that any half-blind monkey can do it.

Thanks for the input guys. Avoiding the non-compliant discussion in my letter (below). It's a bit longer than I wanted it to be (takes up two pages when printed), but I got on a roll.

Let me know what y'all think (and yes I'm going to send it to every one of the executives listed).

***

January 13, 2010

Ms. Betsy Perkins
General Manager
EyeMasters – Arbor Walk location
10515 North Mopac Expressway, Ste.115
Austin, TX 78759

CC:
David L. Holmberg, President and CEO HVHC Inc. / Chairman and CEO Eye Care Centers of America
Jim N. Eisen, President and COO Eye Care Centers of America
Jim Carroll, Regional Vice President of Store Operations Eye Care Centers of America
John Di Ianni, Regional Vice President of Store Operations Eye Care Centers of America
Charles M. Kellstadt, Regional Vice President of Store Operations Eye Care Centers of America
J.Richard Llanes, Regional Vice President of Store Operations Eye Care Centers of America

I am writing to inform you that today I ended a 10-year business relationship with EyeMasters because of the sign posted at the front of your location in the Arbor Walk shopping center, advising via Texas Penal Code 30.06 that law-abiding citizens who are licensed by the state of Texas to legally carry concealed handguns are not welcome in your store.

Please take a moment to read why I am making this decision, despite what has been a mostly positive customer experience with EyeMasters dating back to 1999, including the purchase of three pairs of high-priced Flexon eyeglasses frames, multiple replacement lenses, plus contact lenses and eyeglasses for my wife, totaling well in excess of $1,500 spent from my pockets in your retail stores plus additional reimbursement to EyeMasters from various vision insurance companies over 10 years.

While losing one customer may not seem like much to a large corporation like Highmark, Inc., HVHC, Inc., or Eye Care Centers of America, Inc., understand that I have already begun informing through various networking channels many of the more than 300,000 concealed handgun license holders in Texas that your company does not respect our legal rights nor wish to do business with anyone who exercises those rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution and codified in Texas law.

I first obtained my concealed handgun license in 1998. To do so, I took a lengthy class on Texas law, legal and ethical use of deadly force, and conflict avoidance and resolution; demonstrated my proficiency with a handgun on a live pistol range; provided fingerprints, passport photos, and my entire employment and residence history for the preceding 10 years; and submitted to a thorough background check by the Federal Bureau of Investigations and the Texas Department of Public Safety. After all this, the state deemed me a law abiding citizen – free of prior felony or serious misdemeanor convictions, not behind on my taxes, loan payments, or any child support I might have owed – and issued my license. Every four years since then, I have repeated this same process to renew my license. Statistics available from the DPS prove that concealed handgun license holders as a whole are much more law-abiding than the general population.

To put it bluntly: I’m one of the good guys. And for 10 years I have legally carried a handgun without incident, including inside many EyeMasters locations. My reasons for carrying a handgun are personal, but suffice to say I value my life, my safety, and the lives and safety of family, friends, and fellow Texans. No one knows when the next mass murderer or drug-crazed armed robber might walk into any retail establishment. Just ask the families of the 23 victims of the 1991 massacre at Luby’s in Killeen.

I choose to be prepared. The sign on the front of your store denies me my right to be prepared to defend my life. And that is simply unacceptable to me.

I can only wonder why it is acceptable to any of you who hold respectable leadership positions with EyeMasters, Eye Care Centers of America, Inc., and HVHC, Inc.?

Why is it acceptable for me to be denied “access to affordable, quality healthcare” – as stated in Highmark, Inc’s own Mission Statement - simply because I choose to exercise my legal rights? Denying access to those who hold a legal CHL while not specifically denying criminals who carry guns regardless of any sign is highly discriminatory. Remember, we’re the good guys.

Why do you “tolerate actions … that … place customers, employees, suppliers, or visitors at risk of harm” – in clear contradiction of the “Safe and Healthy Work Environment” guidelines of Highmark, Inc’s “Code of Business Conduct”? To deny my legal right to defend myself while doing business in your store clearly puts me at greater risk of harm.

Why are you not willing and able to “trust and rely on (your) instincts … that something is not quite right” – as directed to by Highmark, Inc’s “Principles of Integrity”? Don’t your instincts tell you that someone who has been through such extensive training and background checks is a good guy who should be allowed inside your store?

I hope you will honestly and thoroughly assess the reasons why the Texas PC 30.06 sign was posted at the entrance to your Arbor Walk location and reconsider this discriminatory practice. If the sign is removed, I will happily return to your store as regular customer.

Respectfully,

Today noticed a 30.06 sign I had not seen before. It's at the Eyemasters retail location in the Arbor Walk shopping center in north Austin (off Mopac, between 183 and Braker), which I've been going to for a while since bad customer service drove me away from their location in Lakeline Mall. I go to Eyemasters because they take the vision insurance offered through my wife's job.

The sign is very easy to overlook, it is very small white letters (definitely not 1 inch tall) pasted directly onto the glass to right of entry door, only a foot or two above the pavement.

I picked up my glasses today (with yellow tinted shooting lenses, which I'd already paid for a few weeks ago). I definitely will not be going back nor giving them any more of my business. A shame really, because there is one lady there who is particularly friendly and helpful.

Anyway, I'm going to write a letter to someone either at that store or Eyemasters corporate to tell them why they just lost my business (and between my wife and I we've spent well over $500 there in the last year or so - glasses are so ridiculously expensive, even with insurance). I'm wondering if y'all think I should mention to them that their tiny little sign is non compliant. Probably not. Two other Eyemasters locations are listed on http://www.texas3006.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and I've just submitted this location.

Also what's the consensus these days on going ahead and walking right past a sign that is compliant in every way except the one-inch height? I'm not doing business there again because their obvious purpose is to prohibit my lawful RKBA and legal concealed carry. But I'm wondering if I needed to go back could I walk in with my gun if necessary? For instance, if they screwed up a credit card charge that I had to dispute or something? Being Austin, I'm thinking that if something were to happen and my CCW was revealed, I might "beat the rap but not the ride" from one of Austin's finest.

Thoughts?