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Return to “Checked to see if my guns were stolen...?”

by TrueFlog
Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:58 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Checked to see if my guns were stolen...?
Replies: 53
Views: 8974

Re: Checked to see if my guns were stolen...?

srothstein wrote:Well, it is a kind of weird situation, TrueFlog. You have to look at the exact wording of the law to see how it works. The first part is under the authority to disarm, which is actually in the Government Code. It says that a peace officer may disarm a license holder under some conditions. None of the conditions say when the person is carrying under the authority of his CHL, just identifies him as a license holder. So, while we most commonly think about traffic stops because that is where 95% or so of the public gets to talk to cops, an LEO has that authority if he happens to be talking to a CHL inside the CHL's own home. I don't see it happening there, but the law gives the LEO that authority. So that is the absolute legal answer to the question.

But more realistically, you have to look at a different section of the law. A CHL is required to identify himself to a peace officer when asked for ID. As a general rule, this combined with the specific authority to disarm means that a CHL is really telling the officer he has a gun. There is a gray area in the law on whether or not the CHL could lie about having it if asked and this has been debated before. But there is no law requiring anyone else to identify themselves as carrying. There is also no law requiring people in general to answer whether they have a gun or not. So, if you don't volunteer the information, how would the officer know to disarm you?
Thanks for the explanation - very interesting. You note that an officer could disarm a CHL'er in his own home. I think we've discussed elsewhere that a CHL'er is required to have his CHL with him anytime he's carrying, including his vehicle. Does this also extend to the home? If I were to lose my wallet with CHL inside, would it then be illegal for me to carry around the house, on my own property? In that scenario, if an officer approached me in my home and asked for ID, I would be unable to produce my CHL.
srothstein wrote:As a retired officer, I do not have to tell the officer or give him my gun when he asks. I probably would tell him, just as a courtesy. But I am not sure if I would surrender my gun to him. I might offer to exchange guns with him and tell him I don't trust him with a gun if he doesn't trust me with one, just to see what happens. Yeah, I would probably cooperate and let him hold my gun, but I would definitely ask why sometime during the stop. I think I would try to turn it into a learning episode from an old guy to a less experienced cop, but like a lot of other old men, I sometimes get crankier than I should about things. I can see it going bad if I am in the wrong mood or the cop approaches me wrong. The only good sign there is I do know some good defense attorneys who would bail me out. :lol:
Heheh,I like that idea - asking for a trade!
4t5 wrote:How about this. You hand the LEO your TXDL and CHL. He asks if you are armed, and you decline to answer any questions.
But I think I'll stick with this one. As you observed, if I don't tell him I have a gun, there's no reason for him to fear me or disarm me.
by TrueFlog
Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:04 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Checked to see if my guns were stolen...?
Replies: 53
Views: 8974

Re: Checked to see if my guns were stolen...?

srothstein wrote:Add in the fact that they can only disarm the CHL legally, and not anyone else legally carrying a gun, and you might see why a CHL is getting a little upset at things. After all, as a retired police officer, I would not surrender my gun to another officer without reason. And while I suspect that the average person carrying under the MPA would go along, there is nothing in the law to allow it or justify it.
That's an interesting point about the MPA. So a person who has no CHL and is legally carrying under the MPA cannot be disarmed during a traffic stop, is that what you're saying? That makes sense, I guess, since it would be an illegal search & seizure. If that's the case, then what about a person who does have a CHL and is in his vehicle? I think the general consensus is that such a person is carrying under the authority of MPA and not his CHL. Does that mean he enjoys the same protection against disarmament as a person without a CHL? Or does the authority to disarm a CHL'er apply regardless of what authority (MPA vs. CHL) he's under (similar to the obligation to show his CHL even when in a vehicle)?
by TrueFlog
Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:38 pm
Forum: LEO Contacts & Bloopers
Topic: Checked to see if my guns were stolen...?
Replies: 53
Views: 8974

Re: Checked to see if my guns were stolen...?

anygunanywhere wrote:Giving up rights to not get a traffic ticket makes no sense to me. When I am stopped for an infraction I always assume I am going to get a ticket not a warning. I have recieved one warning out of all my traffic stops, and I suspect that the officer was on a fishing expedition for drugs. The stop was very early in the morning hours and the officer appeared to have realized he had stopped a good guy when I acted appropriately by performing the proper steps (windows down, engine off, lights on etc.) during the stop and being a CHL holder. My CHL is not a means of avoidinig tickets. If I get caught in a driving offense I deserve a ticket.

I have only been searched twice, once as a teen and once when I was in the military. I was not aware of my rights then but I doubt it would have made any difference. Long stories not relative to this discussion.

Now when I am stopped, I only answer questions pertaining to the stop. I do not respond to fishing questions and I do not respond well to being lectured especially by HPD officers bent on revenue generation. I will also not submit to any searches. I have never been disarmed but I will not accept it quietly as I am not a hazard to any LEO and I do not accept being disarmed for my safety.
Amen, brother. If I committed a violation, then I deserve the ticket. Either way, I am not going to sacrifice my civil rights for a chance to get out of a ticket. They're way more valuable than a few hundred dollars. I'll show him my DL/CHL, and if he asks whether I'm armed, well I can't answer any questions without an attorney present. If he asks where or how I'm carrying, I still can't answer any questions. I would , however, like to know if I'm being detained or if I'm free to go. If he wants to pat me down or disarm me, I won't physically resist, but I won't help him either. I'll just put my hands on my head and state clearly that I do not consent to any search or seizure. Am I more likely to get a ticket this way? Sure, but it's a small price to pay for protecting my civil liberties.
LAYGO wrote:Is it within their rights to ask the locations of the weapons? To ask if you're armed as a CHL, ok, but to know where, if it's loaded, if you have more than one?

I have to remember to fire up my voice recorder on my phone every single time when I'm stopped.
He can ask, but you have no legal obligation to answer. The only possible exception would be if you showed just your DL but not your CHL. When he runs you DL, it will tell him that you also have a CHL. He could then question and/or search you under the suspicion that you committed a crime by not showing your CHL while carrying. That's why I always show both my DL and CHL, even if I'm not carrying.

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