TexasCHLforum.com

TexasRedneck wrote: let's talk about how it COULD be introduced successfully, and implemented in such a way as to enhance ALL our rights even further.

Sounds good to me. A big aspect people have mentioned (myself included) that hasn't been approached is education. How should we go about informing people that open carry is legal and causes no problems in many other states?

Oleg Volk has some great pictures regarding gun rights. Some sort of witty one liner with a responsible looking, well dressed open carrier would be nice.

Like "Many states allow CHL holders to carry open or concealed. Why not Texas?".

Combined with new media stuff (facebook, twitter etc) might at least get people thinking about the idea.

Fishfree, I understand what you're saying.

But understanding its a right that is being denied.....how do you propose we fix it?

As far as I can tell, our best path towards constitutional carry seems to be whats been working. A loosening of gun laws every legislative session. It is not ideal that we're forced to send money to the state, take a test, etc to exercise our right to carry LEGALLY.....but it is the reality of our situation.

In all the back and forth, I have heard lots about how we need to get along, but not a lot of ideas on how to proceed.

My thinking is this: We had the whole "bear" part of the right to keep and bear arms taken from us for over 100 years. If we keep getting a little bit back at a time, is that not better than nothing? I don't mind slowly working towards a goal, knowing maybe my grandkids won't have to deal with the same mess that I did.

Complaining about making rights into privileges doesn't do squat for ourselves or our progeny with regards to our right to keep and bear arms.

Ideas do. I'd love to hear some....

PATHFINDER wrote:Hey - 74Novaman :

I personally like "Eskimos". They are a freedom loving people who are also being oppressed by their State government, and frankly - they really don't have a need for freezers.

So... be happy - OK ! Try not to be so sensitive - OK..

My goodness - gracious - if you don' t think that you have a need for a freezer - then by all means -don't buy one.

Sir, please don't back down now from your statement! We both know you were NOT talking of Eskimos.

PATHFINDER wrote:
I don't know why I insist upon trying to sell air conditioners to " Eskimos"- I really don't.

Perhaps it's because I lived with them dang "Eskimos" for 45 years , and I still regularly "travel" within their "Republic", and it saddens me that they are so willing to exchange their constitutionally declared right for a grant of privilege from the high powers of State government.

I put the important part of what you said into bold and large text to help you out.

PATHFINDER wrote:Hey Guys & gals - y'all keep on hiding those handguns under your golf shirts while folks in the rest of the states enjoy freedom. I am going to politely excuse myself from this "tizzy" before my head explodes .

Charles, you are abosolutely right , my good man. My arguments don't have a leg to stand on - in a Texas courtroom - YET.

I'd say I'm surprised that you're not interested in offering any actual strategies for fixing the "problems" with Texas carry...but I'm not.

Just another person who wants to crow about how anti gun we are in Texas because of no OC.

To TexasRedneck, its exactly this sort of behavior that makes me doubt we can "get along" and work towards mutual goals regarding less gun laws.

Thanks for all your suggestions on improving the situation pathfinder and.....

Well...bye.

PATHFINDER wrote:
I don't know why I insist upon trying to sell air conditioners to " Eskimos"- I really don't.

Perhaps it's because I lived with them dang "Eskimos" for 45 years , and I still regularly "travel" within their "Republic", and it saddens me that they are so content with having to trade their right for a privilege.

If anyone wanted an example of OC supporters degrading and insulting the CHL crowd, here it is.

I'd say most of us here would like constitutional carry, open or concealed, no permit. We understand we shouldn't have to pay the state for a permit to carry. It is frustrating.

But, there is reality, and there is candyland.

To act like we don't understand that our RIGHTS are being infringed upon is an insult. What do you propose we do, just ignore the laws?

TSRA, and many members of this board have worked hard to take Texas from a state with NO carrying of handguns before 1995 to a state with pretty good gun laws regarding carry (not perfect, but not awful).

Working together towards better gun laws is of course what we should be doing.

But when people continue to act like we're stupid for accepting the reality of our situation, which is this:

Texans from the late 1800s until 1995 were stripped of their rights.

....it becomes incredibly frustrating. No, we're not happy with the current state of affairs.

But thanks for calling us stupid for working to restore our rights. Do you propose we do anything different that our proven strategy of legislative success? Our gun laws have been steadily loosened since 1995, BECAUSE of the TSRA and the work of Mr. Cotton and others.

But by all means, continue to be snarky about selling rights for privileges. When you're ready to work with us towards campus carry, open carry, and constitutional carry, let me know your suggestions.

Telling us how awful it is that our ancestors didn't fight back against this stuff 100 years ago doesn't help our situation today.

/rant off.

TexasRedneck wrote:I can understand those that choose not to open carry for their own reasons, and have no issue w/that....but I guess where I have a hard time understanding is those that don't WANT to carry that way being okay with stopping those that would. Every freedom we give up is one less between us and a controlling, over-reaching government - one that expands federal police powers, federal controls over states......oh, wait - we're already getting there, aren't we? We have federal agents taking over for local and state law enforcement officers, schools that have to follow FEDERAL guidelines - the list continues to grow.

Let me present it another way. I don't own full-automatic weapons or suppressors. TSRA has been promoting expanding the use of suppressors for hunting of game animals. Does that mean that because I don't use them, I should oppose it? Based on some of the comments here - yeah, I should....but I don't. I'm pushing for it to be passed, because there's no inherent harm and it is a right that should be returned to us.

It's just a shame that others don't feel the same - that they won't realize that we should support each other, not just that which fits OUR definition of "what should be."

Someone else can have the soapbox now....

I'll jump up on that box.

There are large differences between those of us like you and I who don't own suppressors yet support the idea of their use in hunting being legal, and those who in the past have been the most vocal and ardent supporters of open carry.

You yourself mentioned that the TSRA has been supporting suppressors for hunting use. This is fantastic. TSRA has a PROVEN track record of assisting those who work in our state govt to understand and write GOOD laws for Texas gun owners. During the last session, when TSRA was focused on range protection bills and campus carry, an outside group introduced an open carry bill. Those who supported this bill then were extremely vocal about how WRONG it was of TSRA not to support a bill they didn't help author, when they were busy trying to pass other good gun laws.

You say we should support each other...but how is calling the TSRA "anti gun" or insulting people who have done quite a bit of good for us regarding gun rights in this state support? This seems to be a case of "don't spit on me and tell me its raining." The OC crowd seemed to show little/no enthusiasm for helping to pass campus carry, but we were all anti gun cowards for not supporting OC.

One more important distinction: Suppressor use during hunting has 0.0% percent chance of restricting my ability/right to hunt anywhere. IF open carry legislation adds OC to the 30.06 law, I firmly believe there will be a backlash of companies posting 30.06 when the news starts blaring about how to keep "openly carried LOADED guns" (emphasis news casters worrying tone) out of your businesses. So OC has a HUGE potential to restrict my ability to protect myself. Doesn't sound like a great idea to me.

Unless we approach OC the right way, it will result it my ability to carry concealed being diminished. We've seen how many "no gun" signs whent up when the original CHL law was passed. I see no reason it wouldn't be the same with 30.06 signs if we go about things the wrong way..

Suppressors for hunting is gaining momentum because educating the public on the legality and benefits of suppressors is already at work before any legislation is proposed. OC has no such efforts ongoing that I am aware of (and if a gun enthusiast isn't aware of them, they're not very good efforts).

For me personally to support an OC bill in Texas, here is what I'd like to see:
1)A campaign informing the public on other states who have OC and the lack of problems.
2)A bill at minimum endorsed by the TSRA being proposed for OC
3)Seperate signage to ban OC (say a no guns type sign) and CHL.

If that happens, you can bet I'll throw my support 100% being getting OC passed. Till then, until the OC crowd stops with the bomb throwing and name calling regarding their movement, I'll invest my time and money supporting more important gun issues to me.

speedsix wrote:...it turned out like the link ..

Doh. Didn't read it before I posted. Well, that was a big win for OC then!

It irks me when I see the ocdo map, or when people talk about certain states being open carry that are either OC simply because no one does it so no nannystater has banned it, or places like california with unloaded carry.

Sorry, if I can't carry a LOADED gun, then it doesn't really count as carrying to me...more like accessorizing.

rm9792 wrote:How would that be different from now? BGs are carrying as we type, laws dont stop them. At least with OC we can see it. I wouldnt open carry but think it should be allowed. Lord, even California allows it.

The first part of your statement is 100% true.

The part about California is more of a half truth. They allowed open carry of handguns, if they were unloaded. Super useful.

Then, the OC advocates decided to organize and OC their unloaded guns around in California. That resulted in the Cali legislators (or overlords, as they prefer to be called) attempting to pass legislation to ban unloaded OC as well. I don't know how that effort turned out.

Cali's experience with OC does seem to lend credence to the idea that OC would lead to more 30.06 postings, which I'm strongly opposed to. I like going to places without anyone knowing I have a gun.

I'd agree keeping 30.06 as little known and used as possible. If the generic no guns sign could prevent open carry, it would allow stores to prevent open carry but let concealed go unnoticed/uncared about by the hippies and idiots.

gdanaher wrote:My two cents. With the multiple lawsuits currently pending against the state, filed by school districts, charter schools, and individual parents, to clean up and balance out the per pupil expenditures, a la Robin Hood revisited, the legislature is likely going to be more than busy trying to rearrange the deck chairs on this Titanic, raise taxes without calling it a tax increase again, slough off more costs to local governments so the governor can say he didn't raise taxes, and will likely not have the time nor fortitude needed to tackle such a contentious topic as open carry.

There are always going to be lots of things different interest groups think is "the most important" thing to get done next session.

Its both the blessing and the curse of the way Texas works that they're forced to cram 2 years worth of business into less than one.

Of course, that means less time for them to think of new ways to pass dumb laws, so I'm all for a redacted legislative session.

Frankly, I wouldn't even put Open Carry on the top of my "gun" related legislative wants for next season (that slot belongs to campus carry). But, if someone can get an author, a decent bill and some interest, go for it as far as I'm concerned.

I hadn't checked OC.org since last years legislative session. In that case, sorry OP. No clue.

There's been some name calling, etc from SOME open carry supporters regarding members of this forum who feel legislative efforts should be directed elsewhere (like campus carry) at this time.

Might want to check the Texas section of opencarry.org regarding any OC legislation.