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mamabearCali wrote:

jmra wrote:

Beiruty wrote:I am out of this OC business. Nothing to gain from arguing. Maybe working silently do accomplish more useful things.
But let me know one thing, let us say if OC for sidearms do pass and it is the law that OC of long rifles is legal. In the future exercising the OC option would not be agitating the anti too? Or, are we trying to pass OC on the books only and then we discourage the practice of OC for firearms?

Simply put, OC of handguns is much less obvious and is considered less of a threat by the general public than OC of a long gun. Although I am confident that OC of handguns will be restricted by 90% of businesses and will end up being a novelty in time if it ever passes.

I have not seen that to be true here in VA. It is a novelty, but is becoming less so. I have not seen where OC handguns leads to more signs. I can think of one or two places close to me where all guns are restricted not just OC-ed guns.

Again, you don't live in Texas. When CC first passed in Texas it almost died because of the high number of gun buster signs that went up. If not for the passage of 30.06 CC would have died in Texas. If OC passes in Texas it is very likely that gun buster signs will be enough to prohibit OC. If that is the case, the gun buster signs currently in place would keep you from OCing in a high percentage of businesses. Once people in stores that do not have signs start complaining more signs will go up. It happened in the past when no one knew you were carrying, it will happen even more when the guns are visiable.

Beiruty wrote:I am out of this OC business. Nothing to gain from arguing. Maybe working silently do accomplish more useful things.
But let me know one thing, let us say if OC for sidearms do pass and it is the law that OC of long rifles is legal. In the future exercising the OC option would not be agitating the anti too? Or, are we trying to pass OC on the books only and then we discourage the practice of OC for firearms?

Simply put, OC of handguns is much less obvious and is considered less of a threat by the general public than OC of a long gun. Although I am confident that OC of handguns will be restricted by 90% of businesses and will end up being a novelty in time if it ever passes.

TexasGal wrote:If gun owners are perceiving the tactics of the OC demonstrations unfavorably, imagine how the gun-ignorant in our state are. Recently a friend who is neutral on guns told me she would vote in a heartbeat for a politician who will outlaw these "hillbillies" (her words) from carrying an AR publicly. I for one am sick of seeing them on the news myself. If a law is passed that stops OC of long guns, it will be on the heads of those who used this freedom so rudely it forced lawmakers to put a stop to it. If your teammate keeps running up the score for the other side, do you still see him as a person you want on your team? Is it betraying your team to ask him to please just stop doing it? Then failing that, to flat out demand he knock it off and sit on the bench? The idea we must all remain silent for fear the public will see us as divided just makes the public believe we are all approving of this behavior. We can agree with open carry and disagree with tactics that give a terrible impression of us all.

Beiruty wrote:If we allow or even tolerate more gun restrictions or banning OC of long rifles or replica black powder revovlers, then we are total failure as gun-right community. If this ever happens, it is only us to be blamed. I mean OC folks are trying to advance the OC right, if we do not support OC or any other gun rights then who are we?

"We" are people smart enough to know what works to advance change and what prevents it. OC demonstrations are not going to change people's mind about guns and so far they have only provided ammunition for those who seek to pass more gun restriction laws. Don't believe me, ask those who will be voting on these bills. Ask those like Tripp and Cotton who are working hard for our rights who have asked that these tactics stop.
Who are "we"? "We" are people who refuse to shoot ourselves in the foot in order to prove a point. "We" are people who refuse to through the baby out with the bath water.

Beiruty wrote:To give credit to where it is due. The OCT armed demo and distribution of copy of the constitution is working in bring attention and awareness to the OC issue. Also, all the demo so far is conducted on public area street and parks and Local PD is notified when needed. The event is noting but have courteous and positive attitude. As 2ndA supporters, if we can't support those events, or we can not live with those events, then surely something is wrong in our position.

The fact is they are not changing anyone's mind about OC. If anything the attention that they draw will result in unwanted calls to politicians by the antis making it even more difficult to get legislation passed. Not so sure why we can't learn from past mistakes.

ShootDontTalk wrote:

WildBill wrote:This type of tactic eventually did win over and sway popular opinion. But I see this as much different that the OC movement. The biggest difference is that one was a moral and legal issue. In the case of discrimination, people believed that is was legally and morally wrong so they set out to make change. I don't think most people would see OC in this light.

I don't wish to turn this into a history lesson, but you are correct if you mean people outside the deep south set out to correct a moral and legal wrong. In the south, after the Civil War, the issue was much more complex and it festered into a hatred that eventually became codified into unconstitutional laws in many places. Morality was hardly an issue. Irregardless, the issue is not one of worthiness of cause, but tactics. Tactics are not subject to cause. What the tactics overcame in the south was considered by some as a completely lost cause. Most people would never have come face to face with the discrimination without the tactics of MLK and his organization. The protests drew a reaction that highlighted the problem.

None of this should be interpreted as my condoning the use of such tactics. I'm only warning you of the danger in not working with those who use them and the futility of throwing bombs at them.

The success of civil rights demonstrations was more about the right leaders at the right time for the movement as anything else. It was also an opportunity for politicians with other agendas to increase their influence by jumping on the bandwagon creating a "perfect storm" for change. If you believe that "perfect storm" condition exist currently for OC and simply needs OC demonstrations to ignite it, then we live on different planets. A "No Guns" sign is not going to pull the same emotional strings with the general public as a "No Blacks" sign did.

mamabearCali wrote:I will say as an OC-er of a handgun, legally in my state, I have found the terms used here to be less than helpful. The disparaging terms do not help.

OC-ers want many of the things all 2nd amendment supporters want. We have much more in common than not. If you brand them as nuts and crazies, remember there are people who brand anyone who carries a gun and is not a LEO as a nut and a crazy, and they are not those people.

A baptist and a catholic may disagree on much, but if they come together on what they agree on they can accomplish much. If they call each other names, they will all go down together.

Your analogy couldn't be more off base. I believe you are far away enough from Texas that you aren't getting the whole picture of what we are dealing with. The vast majority of people on this forum support the passage of an OC bill that does not affect our current CC laws.

The "nuts" and "crazy" people we are talking about are not people who are legitimately concerned about the 2A amendment. It is people who walk thru Walmart with an AR and a film crew knowing that people are going to freak out and that they are going to be asked to leave the property by either the store management or local police. These people's sole objective is 15 minutes of fame from a YouTube video. These people are putting the hard work of people truly concerned about the 2A at great risk.

The "in your face" tactics have not been effective in getting legislation passed here before and it will not be effective in the future.

We can spin this thing however we want but it all boils down to this: Given the backlash that these OC demonstrations are causing on this forum, just think how much they are causing among the general public who elect politicians. Do you think that is helpful or productive? I don't.

WildBill wrote:

tomtexan wrote:Still at it.....

LONGVIEW, TX (KLTV) - A group called Open Carry Texas held a peaceful demonstration in Longview today at Loop 281 and Gilmer Rd.

...and they will be doing it again this upcoming Saturday, May 3, in Tyler.

I may drive up there just for observation purposes.

Anyone else going to attend?

Not me.

Me either.