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03Lightningrocks wrote:Lol.... That is funny... May the force be with you.


Funny how we all come together when Obama is mentioned...


Maybe we all agree with certain aspects of this situation with just enough differences to create some frustration. Sorry if I was sounding insulting. I was trying not to. Charles was correct when he said we should all hang loose for the actual investigation. We may all end up with egg on our faces.

03Lightningrocks wrote:Lol... I don't hate the guy. I don't even hate you. He is what he is. The dead dude was no angel either. I don't hate him. The only person I can really say I hate is Obama... .

One more time... This situation is what happens when an untrained person attempts to act as an officer of the law. It is one thing if a crime is being witnessed and a citizen tries to help a victim. That is NOT what happened here.

Hate... Wow.... That takes way too much emotional energy. I really don't even hate Obama... I just hate his policies.

Just one more tidbit you might be surprised to read. I am one of the folks who are charged with watching our neighborhood. I am usually up late at night.... I work out of the house most days... So naturally... I am one of the neighborhood babysitters. I take my turn cruising the hood and we are all asked to call the cops and not try to "stop" a crime. I have called the law more than a few times to check out suspicious behavior and have yet made the decision to follow anyone who looked suspicious. Mostly because I don't want to find myself in the same situation as Zimmerman. I will allow the cops to do their job and I will give a description of the suspicious character the best I can without following them around. I have yet to witness a crime in progress so can't really say how I will react if I do. Mostly it depends on the crime I witness. I'm not going through the hassle of shooting a bg because he is stealing somebodies stereo.

Well, wait, I did start following a drunk driver after watching him back into a gas pump and almost run over a guy in a parking lot. He spotted me and started speeding up and jumped on the freeway. I backed off because I was worried the fool might kill someone trying to get away from me. The darned cops never did show up to help that time but chasing a drunk down the freeway was really not a good plan.

I won't go into my self defense credentials, I will just say I can hold my own pretty well but try like the devil to stay out of altercations. I have been involved in two self defense shootings and am a bit concerned at some point an unfriendly grand jury may decide I am looking for trouble myself. My experiences in this area have taught me that it is best to avoid situations where self defense may become necessary and that there are times when one can look back and realize they may have been stepping into something they didn't need to be in. If I make a decision that sets into motion a chain of events... I have only myself to blame for the results.

Fortunately... Our homeowners association and our block watch crew are all volunteers. I don't think I would like a home owners association like some of the nazi types I read folks posting about on this forum. We do have rules but nobody is going to kick down my door and shoot my dog because my car is parked wrong in front of the house. We are a pretty loose group. Maybe we should get more serious about crime watch but we really don't have much more than the usual car stereo thefts and occasional house burglary.

My brothers homeowners will kill a man for having the wrong color flowers in the front yard... .

One last time.... I don't hate either guy... But both of them are of questionable history. Maybe tray on thought Zimmerman was a BG about to get him. Trayvon probably thought he was standing his ground.

03Lightningrocks wrote:Here is the guy some of you folks think is so innocent.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... bled=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He beats women... Attacks cops... Has an explosive temper... And was a wannabe cop who couldn't cut the muster. He was fired as a security guard. Good Lord!

Just to be sure I understand... A few of you think this lunatic was not looking for trouble? He was just innocently walking outside his car and was unexpectedly attacked...LOL. The real question is... Was tray the one exercising his right to stand his ground and lost? One sure way to get away with a lie is to kill the only person who might be able to dispute who started what.

I rest my case. I won't even begin to give serious thought to anything a guy with Zimmermans history has. Woman beating, cop attacking... Wow... Regular model citizen.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

jmra wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

jmra wrote:Using your logic I could say that if Martin hadn't been dealing drugs and gotten himself suspended from school he wouldnt have been in the neighborhood in the first place. So being a drug dealer resulted in his death.

Using your logic, if zimmerman had not been born in the first place, none of this would have happened. How about we all quit reaching so far and get back to reality? I am actually surprised so many of you think that CHL gives you Batman authority. Good luck with that.

Zimmerman creating the situation by butting in where he was not needed is logical... your logic is just rediculous at any level.

Actually that would be using your logic, not mine.

If you want to talk facts we can. The fact is simply this; there is not a single shred of evidence to suggest that Zimmerman continued to follow or look for Martin after being told by the operator "we don't need you to do that". There is not a single shred of evidence to suggest that Zimmerman did not retreat toward his vehicle as he claimed. There is not a single bit of evidence to suggest that Zimmerman did anything other than what he has claimed most of which is supported by eye witnesses and the physical evidence found at the scene.
Another fact; the only evidence that we have to date that Zimmerman shot Martin is Zimmermans own statement. No one saw him do it. We haven't seen a ballistics report. We haven't seen the results of a gun powder test that shows that Zimmerman actually fired a gun. The only thing we have is eye witness accounts that they struggled and what they saw afterwards and Zimmermans word. We accept as fact that Zimmerman shot Martin because of Zimmermans statement and the supporting evidence but many dismiss everything else he says and the supporting evidence because it does not fit what they want to believe. Well, news flash, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

What seems to be getting past you is that I am not arguing about whether Zimmerman or the dead guy were justified in the shooting or the butt kicking. I am saying one thing... Zimmerman caused the whole mess by over stepping his bounds. Same goes for you or any other "hot shot" that wants to play cop.

I am done with it... I realize now you and a few others will never get it.

mamabearCali wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:

jmra wrote:Using your logic I could say that if Martin hadn't been dealing drugs and gotten himself suspended from school he wouldnt have been in the neighborhood in the first place. So being a drug dealer resulted in his death.

Using your logic, if zimmerman had not been born in the first place, none of this would have happened. How about we all quit reaching so far and get back to reality? I am actually surprised so many of you think that CHL gives you Batman authority. Good luck with that.

Zimmerman creating the situation by butting in where he was not needed is logical... your logic is just rediculous at any level.

How do you know he "butted in"? That would imply some overt action on his part. Right now all we know is that he observed and followed an individual he perceived as suspicious, and called the police. Even if he engaged Mr. Martin with a "what are you doing?" that is still no reason to try and beat someone to death.

If Zimmerman had not gotten out of he car (completely legal) this would not have happened. If Mr. Martin had not been using/distributing/whatever with marijuana (not legal), he would not have been there. If....if...if... But so far from what we know Mr. Martin committed a very illegal act here...Using lethal force (puching someones head into he ground) on an obviously not lethal threat (Zimmerman on the ground).

03Lightningrocks wrote:

jmra wrote:Using your logic I could say that if Martin hadn't been dealing drugs and gotten himself suspended from school he wouldnt have been in the neighborhood in the first place. So being a drug dealer resulted in his death.

Using your logic, if zimmerman had not been born in the first place, none of this would have happened. How about we all quit reaching so far and get back to reality? I am actually surprised so many of you think that CHL gives you Batman authority. Good luck with that.

Zimmerman creating the situation by butting in where he was not needed is logical... your logic is just rediculous at any level.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

jmra wrote:I can't think of anything in this thread more hypothetical than your assertion that Zimmermans "bad choices" resulted in Martins death.
Martin is dead because he attacked a retreating Zimmerman with deadly force. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that Zimmerman provoked this attack.

If Zimmerman had of stayed in his vehicle instead of playing cop, he would not have put himself into the position of having to shoot the guy who was whooping his tail. That is NOT hypothetical in any way, shape, form or fashion and quite frankly it is a very pertanate FACT! I bet it comes up at Zimmermans trial.

What is hypothetical is assuming that the dead guy attacked Zimmerman first. NOBODY saw that part of the situation. They saw Zimmerman getting whooped... but we don't know what transpired just before the witness saw batman getting his butt kicked.

Like it or not... MY POST IS ONE OF THE VERY FEW FACT BASED POSTS ON THIS ENTIRE THREAD!!! You folks better wake up here. This is just the kind of case to cause public opinion to turn on CHLers!!! We want to be real darned careful about acting like we all think the CHL gives us the right to do crime investigation. Most citizens have a real fear of untrained individuals running around with guns playing cop.

03Lightningrocks wrote:Funny...at this point I am not sure what anyone's opinion on this thread is. So many hypothetical situations have been introduced, one could easily find themselves defending the existence of the Easter Bunny.

Zimmermans bad choices lead to the death of a human. Maybe a " thug" but in gods eyes... A human. Said thug is dead so we won't be hearing about how he might of thought Zimmerman was a competing gang member about to jump him. We will never hear how said thug may have just been mean and decided to kick zimmermans tail end for fun. What we are going to hear is how this is the perfect example of why citizens can't be trusted to own firearms and this part makes me crazy! My special thanks goes out to Mr. Zimmerman for making us all look bad. I might think differently if Zimmerman saw the guy trying to bust into something or committing a crime. But he didn't... So in my opinion, Zimmerman is not worthy of my concern or compassion.

Approach me in the dark from behind after following me first and I am going to be in extreme condition red. I might even try to gain a tactical advantage on you. It is just us... I don't have a cop. Manno e manno. Mistaken intentions do happen.

To read some of the posts here, I am to believe that if I decide to take a walk right now, I am legitimate game for interrogation by a total stranger. Not in my world. You want to say how ya doing and keep walking I will say fine.. How about you. Stop and challenge me and I won' t be the slightest bit polite. Get in my space and it is on! Neighbor looks outside after the initial encounter and sees me or the other guy on top... Shot fired. Human dead. Who was the bad guy again?

Maybe the dead guy thought Zimmerman was coming after him annoyed man. In this case...I disagree with you my man. If I have reason to believe you are coming after me and your not a police officer doing his duty... I have every right to take you out.

Kadelic wrote:

jmra wrote:That is your opinion, but he did not break any law in getting out of his car and following Martin from a distance.

Except that the 911 operator specifically told him not to follow...

03Lightningrocks wrote:If you folks want to be law enforcement officers, getting a CHL was not the first step. Good luck with that. Don't ever forget, you don't have law enforcement authority. There is a HUGE difference in self defense and running around looking for trouble...which is what Zimmerman did. ZIMMERMAN WITNESSED NO CRIME TAKING PLACE!

03Lightningrocks wrote:

ScooterSissy wrote:

03Lightningrocks wrote:I must have missed the part of the story where Zimmerman innocently got out of his car and was attacked. I was more focus on him following the dude around the neighborhood because the guy had a hoody and was black.

Can someone direct me to the report that Zimmerman just happened to be getting out of his car and was attacked?

I don't think anyone here said that he just "innocently got out of his car and was attcked". However, there have been several reports the he claims he lost the guy, and was headed back to his car, when Martin approached him from behind. Is that what you were seeking, or was this just a response implying that he had no business getting out of his car?

He had no business getting out of his car to look for a suspect...unless he was a police officer. Which he was not!

03Lightningrocks wrote:

sugar land dave wrote:How did we get to drug use and drinking?

and did someone actually say or imply that everyone has done it?

I am getting a little on in years, but I have never smoked anything, and I cannot drink alcohol, so I am no expert on those actions, but everyone? I feel that might be a bit of a stretch.

On topic, I don't think SYG is in trouble beyond saving.

I am getting on in years and as a troubled teen tried about every drug known to man kind. Smoking pot never made me do anything other than laugh, eat everything in the house and fall asleep. It sure never made me or anyone else I ever saw stoned violent. Now drinking is a different story. I wish I had a nickel for every time I watched some redneck get all tough guy after drinking two beers. This thread is way too long to read every post, but some story about finding weed in this guys back pack does not make me think he is a bad guy in the slightest. It is also nothing more than the local cops trying to divert from the real issue. On what authority was Zimmerman donning his bat cape?

What this story does tell me is that armed watchmen and security guards are dangerous and don't have the proper training to be playing batman. Neither do the majority of us with a CHL. Don't chase me down and act like it is self defense when I clock you. The only one I won't go ninja on is a police officer. Security guards and neighborhood batmans are fair game. This is looking bad for the shooter. He never had any business chasing that kid down!

We are missing the point if we worry about the issue of whether Martin was a thug or not. The issue is that the shooter had no business acting as a cop. He didn't witness the kid committing any crime anyway! Are we really going to pretend this was a good shoot?

Beiruty wrote:That changes the whole story now? The shooter was on the ground being pounded, on top is Mr. Martin. An eyewitness with 911 on the phone seeing everything. The witness said the one laying on the ground was screaming for help. This make the shooter not BSing. One can't retreat if he was pinned downed.


This is why the PD did not arrest.