TexasCHLforum.com

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

bigred90gt wrote:I just got off the phone with the Louisiana State Police - Concealed Handgun Unit (phone # 225-925-4867 if you want to verify it for yourself), and was told that in a restaurant that serves alcohol, unless such restaurant posts a sign prohibiting the carry of a concealed handgun, you are legally allowed to carry your concealed handgun into the restaurant, but you must not carry it into the bar area of the restaurant. I specifically used Joes Crabshack as an example, and was told "yes, you can carry into a restaurant, but not into the bar area".

I'm of the opinion that the laws quoted above stating that any place selling alcohol for onsite consumption is off limits is a law for those who do not have a CHL. The CHL laws apply to a person carrying a handgun under the authority of their license. Again, this part is just my opinion, the previous paragraph is a fact given to me by the state police, and anyone who is curious is more than welcome to call that number and verify it. The lady who answered seemed very friendly.

Having lived in Louisiana for 30+ years, I have made of few of those calls myself. Everytime you get a different person you get a different answer. I would place little value on the answers they give you. Read around a little and you will find the same thing goes for dps here in Tx.

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

Bonc_CHL wrote:So I just finished reading the LA CHL book and it is about clear as mud.

A few questions:

1. Is there a 30.06 type sign in LA or will any anti Firearm sign work?
2. This is for LA and TX also. Say my hotel has 30.06 or whatever it is in LA, can I still take my gun to my room if its in my bag?
3. So pretty much anywhere in LA that serves booze you cant carry?

I am going to LA this weekend and want to be as up to speed as i can.

I know the answer for 3 - the way the law is currently written it is a violation of state law to carry where alcohol is served for onsite consumption. The La chp ( concealed handgun permit) law does not give you a defense against this law, in fact it specifically states in the chp law that you can not violate any other state law.

The other two I am going to give an opinion:
1. No 30.06 sign in La. The chp law does not limit the right of a property owner to restrict the carry of firearms on their property. If you see something that looks like a no guns sign don't carry. you must also obtain permission before entering a home while armed.
2. I would think that renting a hotel room gives you much the same rights as renting an apartment - while you are staying in the room it is your residence. If this is the case you are allowed to have a firearm in your residence.

Again, 1 and 2 are my opinion. 3 is fact.

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

If you have an iPhone download an app called "gun conceal". It has laws and easy to read charts and graphics for all 50 states along with answers to all the questions you just asked for each state. Well worth the 2 bucks.

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

FL450 wrote:Yes there is contridiction in the law. I spoke with a friend in the Shreveport area that said his Leo buddies wouldn't issue a ticket or arrest any one carrying in a resteraunt.
NO area might have a differant take. If you carry you do take some risk,
weigh the scale and choose for yourself.

I don't know that it can even be called a contradiction. In order for it to be a contradiction the cc law would have to state that you can carry at these locations. The absence of these locations in the prohibited listing does not constitute permission to carry when another law is broken by doing so. For instance Barksdale AFB is not listed as a prohibited area but you can't cc there because it would violate fed law. This does not mean that there is a contradiction it simply means it is not possible to list every place you can not carry.
I agree that the intent is probably to allow carry in the areas discussed (joes crab shack) but intent does not supersede written law and the way the law is written (as opposed to implied) there is no conflict/contradiction. They do need to fix it.

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

Mike1951 wrote:I haven't disputed that there may be some leftover code that wasn't removed when CC was passed.

i give you the list of prohibited locations from their handbook:

Prohibited Locations
R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) states that no concealed handgun may be carried into and no concealed handgun permit issued pursuant to this Section shall authorize or entitle a permittee to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:
A law enforcement office, station, or building;
A detention facility, prison, or jail;
A courthouse or courtroom, provided that a judge may carry such a weapon in his own courtroom;
A polling place;
A meeting place of the governing authority of a political subdivision;
The state capitol building;
Any portion of an airport facility where the carrying of firearms is prohibited under federal law, except that no person shall be prohibited from carrying any legal firearm into the terminal, if the firearm is encased for shipment, for the purpose of checking such firearm as lawful baggage;
Any church, synagogue, mosque or similar place of worship;
A parade or demonstration for which a permit is issued by a governmental entity;
Any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter 1 or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises.
I point out again that a Class A-General cannot be a restaurant, as a Class A-General bars anyone under 18.
Any school "firearm free zone" as defined in R.S. 14:95.6.
The provisions of R.S. 40:1379.3 (N) shall not limit the right of a property owner, lessee, or other lawful custodian to prohibit or restrict access of those persons possessing a concealed handgun pursuant to a permit issued under this Section. No individual to whom a concealed handgun permit is issued may carry such concealed handgun into the private residence of another without first receiving the consent of that person.

You are entirely missing the point. It clearly states in the cc law that you are not permitted to violate any other state or federal laws. To have a firearm on your person in an establishment that serves alcohol is a violation of a state law and if you violate that state law you are violating the provision in the cc law that states you can not violate any other state law. What is so hard to understand here? In Texas law we are clearly provided with defenses to specific laws. La did not provide those defenses therefore it is a violation. Clear and simple.

Like I said before, I would love for someone to become the test case and spend thousands of their own dollars to perhaps get 14:95.5 changed or the cc law changed to include defenses. It would make my life much easier when we visit.

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

Mike1951 wrote:You should have the previous section of code which they didn't post. Everything you quoted applies to carry in an ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OUTLET.

D. clearly states that a restaurant with majority of sales from food and non-alcoholic beverages is NOT an ALCOHOLIC BEVERAGE OUTLET.

RS 14:95.4
§95.4. Consent to search; alcoholic beverage outlet

A. Any person entering an alcoholic beverage outlet as defined herein, by the fact of such entering, shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

B. For purposes of this Section, "alcoholic beverage outlet" means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are the primary purpose or are an incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

C. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" licensed to sell firearms or containing an indoor shooting gallery shall be exempt from the provisions of this Section in those areas designated for the sale of firearms or the shooting gallery.

D. An "alcoholic beverage outlet" shall not include a restaurant if a majority of its gross receipts are from sales of food and non-alcoholic beverages.

E. The owner of the alcoholic beverage outlet shall post a sign, at or near the entrance, that states that by the fact of entering these premises a person shall be deemed to have consented to a reasonable search of his person for any firearm by a law enforcement officer or other person vested with police power, without the necessity of a warrant.

Added by Acts 1983, No. 524, §1.

You would be charged as violating RS 14:95.5 not RS 14:95.4.

The key words are "as used herein means" and "whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment". The definition in RS 14:95.4 applies to RS 14:95.4 and the definition in RS 14:95.5 applies to RS 14:95.5.

R.S. 14:95.5 B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.

Definitions are supplied in each section because they are intended to be applied differently. Otherwise the definition would be stated once at the beginning of RS 14:95. If the wording of 14:95.4 D also existed in 14:95.5 then I would agree with you and our friends at louisianacarry.org would have no reason to post what is on their website, however it does not and therefore does not apply to 14:95.5.

Point blank period...cc in La in an establishment were alcohol is served is a violation of state law. No exemption to RS 14:95.5 is afforded to A Concealed Handgun Permit carrier under current cc laws.

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

Mike1951 wrote:
jmra wrote:why would you not "sweat over the fact that Joe's serves alcohol"? Under current La law it is a violation to carry were alcohol is sold for onsite consumption.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin ... erved.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
No, it isn't!!!

This has been covered in at least two threads recently that include the appropriate laws.

It is only illegal in establishments that possess a Class-A General license. That same Class-A General license bars admission to anyone under 18.

It does not apply to establishments that possess a Class-A Restaurant license, making it very similar to Texas' 51% law.

Unfortunately this information is incorrect. The regs do prohibit cc in a class-a general license establishment but they do not state specificly that you can carry in establishments that do serve alcohol that do not have such a license - basically the current La regs do not give a defense to LRS 14:95.5 (did you read the provided link?).

This quote comes directly from http://www.louisianacarry.org/changes/b ... outlet.htm

"Problem: A Concealed Handgun Permit carrier is not allowed to have his legally possessed weapon in any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises. This means you can not legally defend yourself in almost any restaurant in Louisiana! This is in direct violation of Article 1, Section 11 of our own State Constitution.

Pertinent Statute: R.S. 14:95.5. Possession of firearm on premises of alcoholic beverage outlet

A. No person shall intentionally possess a firearm while on the premises of an alcoholic beverage outlet.
B. "Alcoholic beverage outlet" as used herein means any commercial establishment in which alcoholic beverages of either high or low alcoholic content are sold in individual servings for consumption on the premises, whether or not such sales are a primary or incidental purpose of the business of the establishment.
C. The provisions of this Section shall not apply to the owner or lessee of an alcoholic beverage outlet, or to an employee of such owner or lessee, or to a law enforcement officer or other person vested with law enforcement authority acting in the performance of his official duties.
D. Whoever violates the provisions of this Section shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

Acts 1985, No. 765, §1. Link to law on Louisiana's official web site

Solution: Complete repeal of said statute. [This law is inextricably related to the law detailed here]

This law is putting law abiding citizens at risk. This is an unnecessary infringement on the inherent human right of self defense. The decision to permit or prohibit weapons should be at the sole discretion of the owner of any specific establishment.

One unusual aspect of this law is that our concealed carry statute addresses this issue in a less restrictive manner. According to RS 40:1379.3, a permittee is already excluded from carrying a concealed weapon in "any portion of the permitted area of an establishment that has been granted a Class A-General retail permit, as defined in Part II of Chapter I or Part II of Chapter 2 of Title 26 of the Louisiana Revised Statutes of 1950, to sell alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises." Our CHP law seems to imply that a carrier may be armed in a beverage establishment, as long as they are not in a Class A establishment, but it does not state that this is permitted "notwithstanding other laws to the contrary." This is pertinent, because paragraph (M.) states: "No concealed handgun permit shall be valid or entitle any permittee to carry a concealed weapon in any facility, building, location, zone, or area in which firearms are banned by state or federal law." Since R.S. 14:95.5 is clearly a prohibition on carry in non-Class A establishments according to State law, a CHP carrier is at risk of having to bear the cost of battling this ambiguity in Court. This law currently does not seem to be being enforced against lawful concealed carriers because of this wording, however, the law is ambiguous in this respect. We need to prevent a costly battle at the expense of a lawful carrier by clearing this up in our CHP statute, if we are unable to obtain a repeal of R.S. 14:95.5.

If a restaurant wishes to restrict weapons on their property, they still have the right to do so. We do not need to do this by law. There are many law abiding citizens and restaurants who are being hurt by this. This law is putting citizens at risk of bodily harm, and in legal jeopardy. It is also potentially having a negative effect on the revenue of the restaurants in our State, since those citizens who wish to abide by the law and protect their families cannot patronize a large percentage of the dining establishments available to them. We need to repeal it as soon as possible."

I lived in La for 30 years and have researched this subject extensively (wife and I are both CHL and visit family in the NO area often) and can tell you that the current position of the state police and AG is that cc in any establishment that serves alcohol is prohibited. Now if you want to be the test case, be my guest as I would love to be able to wear my gun while eating lunch when we visit family. I will not be part of the test case.

by jmra

Re: Louisiana update

chabouk wrote:We shopped in Shreveport/Bossier today. We went sight-seeing in Bass Pro, then ate lunch at Joe's Crab Shack. We never entered any of the Boardwalk shops or areas (both those businesses are technically "in" the Boardwalk), so I never passed their list of rules (which I've heard says no guns or weapons of any kind). I also didn't sweat over the fact that Joe's serves alcohol.

why would you not "sweat over the fact that Joe's serves alcohol"? Under current La law it is a violation to carry were alcohol is sold for onsite consumption.
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulletin ... erved.html

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