TexasCHLforum.com

kw5kw wrote: \The difference comes when you're looking down the barrel... then the difference is very obvious.

Russ

Only when there isn't someone behind that gun intent on pulling the trigger. Then they all look plenty big enough!

Oh Chris, you mentioned auto-glass and that reminded me of a class where we tested typical auto-glass from side and rear windows? Surprisingly, the glass on car doors and the rear window will completely deflect a bullet if the angle is right. We expected this from the laminated glass that makes up windshields but consistently bouncing .45's off side windows was a new one.

Chris wrote:

G.C.Montgomery wrote: O'Donnell then shot himself twice with the handgun that investigators believe was used in the rape.

depends on how you tell the story, and what details you know...

I posted the story, not to say 9mm was a bad choice but, to illustrate that handguns in general are not a magic wands. The point is, the results of shooting someone are often not what many of us have come to expect because of movies, TV and the gunstore commandos we all know. Suicides, as you know, are no different. I have read coroner and police report details of people shooting themselves in the head twice. But, you are right, most of the time a suicide involving multiple gunshot wounds is from the "victim" choosing to shoot his/herself in the chest. Strangely, most such reports I've seen were women.

Chris wrote: ...I will continue to carry my 9mm because i know i can hit exactly what i'm aiming at. i don't care if it goes through, or if it lodges in your head, so long as whatever is being done against me stops immediately. 9mm is my favorite pistol caliber, and will continue to be.

I agree 100%...I too carry 9mm when I carry my Glocks. I don't feel any less armed than when I carry a .45cal 1911.

Posted below...another one for the books on the effectiveness, or lack there of, of handguns with respect to the human skull. Freddie Felon, attempting to take the easy way out, couldn't get suicide right and was forced to try again. Happens more than most would think.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Man rapes Suffield girl, kills himself
Former boyfriend leads officers on car chase in Portage County. Shots fired after auto gets stuck
By Connie Bloom
Beacon Journal staff writer

A former boyfriend raped a 17-year-old Suffield Township girl then shot himself to death after a police pursuit Tuesday, investigators said.
Douglas D. O'Donnell, 20, of the 1900 block of Armon Street Northeast in Canton was pronounced dead at Akron City Hospital at 4:52 p.m., Portage County Sheriff Duane Kaley said.

Portage County dispatchers received a 911 call at 3 p.m. from the victim. She told a dispatcher that O'Donnell entered the Randolph Road home through an unlocked door. Kaley said O'Donnell was armed with a handgun, Taser and duct tape. The man subdued the teen and raped her, Kaley said. Portage County sheriff's deputies and detectives, Mogadore police and troopers from the State Highway Patrol responded to the teen's call for help.

Kaley said the officers pursued O'Donnell for about three miles from Randolph Road to U.S. Route 224 and Congress Lake Road.
Police say O'Donnell's vehicle went off the road on Route 224 and got stuck. Kaley said O'Donnell then shot himself twice with the handgun that investigators believe was used in the rape. O'Donnell was transported to Akron City Hospital where he was pronounced dead. His body was taken to the Summit County Medical Examiner's Office. An autopsy was scheduled to be conducted today, Kaley said.

Police have not released the name of the victim.
``She's shook up,'' Kaley said. ``It's been a traumatic day for her.
``Physically, I think she's OK.'' The victim was treated at an undisclosed hospital and released. Detectives remained at both crime scenes late Tuesday night. ``We'll be up half the night,'' Kaley said. ``There's no suspect to prosecute, but we'll be tying up loose ends and getting some closure tonight.''

cyphur wrote:I trained in the Army for two in the heart, one in the head. Re-apply if necessary. Not bad advice if you ask me.

That's the one thing that deadly force has over all other force options. Invariably, continuous reapplication of said force (blunt objects, guns or knives) will eventually have the desired effect.

ea40ss wrote:I was pretty well set to transition from 40s&w to 9mm for carry, but I just read this and now question the effectivness of the 9mm round. Since the guy was a competition shooter I just wonder if he had some light loads. I can't imagine that factory ammo would be so weak. I wonder what his gun and ammo combination was. Now that it is winter and people are wearing more clothes I wonder if this would even penerate a heavy coat...

Oh yeah?...Well, if you really want something to make you question the effectiveness of handguns in general, let me lay an experience on you. When I was a kid in middle school and high school, I spent a couple summers as a gopher for one of my sister's medical school mentors. One day I was near the ER when they rolled in a guy who'd attempted to commit suicide by placing a .44 caliber Smith&Wesson in contact with his temple and pulling the trigger.

When Dumb Dumb arrived in the ER he was animated, combative and obviously in a great deal of pain. His head was leaking profusely from the left side and there were obvious powder burns where the skin was still intact. There appeared to be a 2-inch gaping wound with hanging skin on the left side of his head behind and above his eye. On the opposite side of his head was a large bump.

Long story short, examination revealed none of the expected internal damage to the brain or eyes. Because he hadn't opened his eyes and they appeared to be leaking blood, it had been assumed he'd nucleated them. The got him cleaned up and guess what...Dumb Dumb had a very hard head and a truly wide streak of good luck. The bullet had apparently deflected off the skull and traced around to the otherside of his head where it stopped just behind the right eye...That's the bump we saw.

So the ER doc sedates Dumb Dumb, makes a small incision on the bump and with just a little prodding, a well rounded, .44cal projectile was expressed from the incision like a teenager popping the worlds biggest zit. Dumb Dumb was subsequently sent to my sister in the psych ward for observation and evaluation. He walked out of the hospital within a few days with prescriptions for pain, infection and manic depression.

The point lurking here is that it's not that big a surprise that a bullet is stuck in the fatty tissue of a hardend criminal's forehead. I'm sure his mother missed many opportunities to take advantage of a soft posterior region whenever he acted up as a child. Had she taken the time out of her day to show she cared and beat him as required, he probably wouldn't have that bullet stuck in his head right now. All joking aside, handgun bullets, regardless of caliber, have a very hard time penetrating the human skull. So don't judge the performance of 9mm on this one case alone.