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Stupid wrote:It's just me, i cannot speak for anybody else. I do not negotiate with anybody who threatens me or my loved ones.

I understand that you cannot speak for anyone else but, you did not answer the question.

I think I get where you are coming from, Stupid. I can't argue against it. But let me ask you this...If your loved ones were in a store without you and a scenario such as that described by the OP presented itself, how would you want a CHL holder to react? Lets get specific and say this "child" is threatening your spouse and/or child with a firearm. Do you want any CHL holder present to stand quietly by and let things take their natural course? Or would you prefer the CHL holder stop the threat?

DoubleJ wrote:...I believe we are on the same side of the argument, however I fear my message is not making it from my brain to my fingers ...

Agreed, we are on the same side...And your point was made. However, for the purposes of this discussion I felt it necessary to emphasize to all that the moment of truth is not the time to dither on what might be motivating your threat. I recognize there are "kids" making adult decisions without a full understanding of the consequences. The child who set off the fire-suppression system in a helicopter hanger yesterday is a prime example. Like you, I think there are kids who are so immersed in a world that's supposed to "entertain" them that they don't get the consequences of what they are doing. So, on this we agree...This type of "child," the GTA child, is very dangerous indeed. What makes them truly dangerous is they may look like YOUR kid and you may not act appropriately as a result.

Still, the second "child" I described, I think is a totally different personality. Going well beyond the GTA mindset, these "kids" are fully aware of the consequences of their decisions, and for a variety of reasons, just don't care. I grew up with a number of kids with this mindset. Many processed into juvenile detention at some point. However, the result was that they left the system as bigger, meaner felons and their only growth was in physical strength and criminal skill sets. These are goal oriented, violent criminal actors that I think make the most dangerous adversaries one can face. These are the "kids" who grow up to become professional predators.

DoubleJ wrote:thing is, with a kid that young, they may have NO idea the consequences of their actions! they may be just going through the motions they've seen their friends, "mentors" do. Or more likely, the actions of some GrandTheftAuto mentality...

I have to disagree here…Strike that. I should say that this mindset does not always apply. Without trying to explain the different mindsets one might encounter, I submit the following: You don't get to know the background of the person threatening to kill you. You don't get to know his/her mindset. All you have to influence your judgment are his/her immediate actions.

Furthermore, the problem assumed by the OP is that your life or the life of a third person is in immediate danger. If immediate action is needed to prevent serious bodily injury or death, the question of the actor’s mindset and/or its origin is irrelevant. You don't have time to decide whether or not this is just a "kid" who thinks the world is one big GTA game or if the monster before you is a full-blown, narcissistic, sociopath who has decided he will take what he wants from this world, when he wants it, how he wants it and does not care who has to die to get it. If you can honestly look into a “child’s� eyes to see the difference before that child makes a canoe of your skull with the gun in his hand, then you are a better man than me.

FamCounselor wrote:Last night on the late local news there was a story of a robbery in a Dollar General store. They said that the thief was a 12 or 13 yr old boy with a gun. He demanded money from the register and I am not sure what happened after that.

I immediately started wondering- If I were at this store and saw this young kid with a gun, would I be able to pull my weapon and put an end to this?

What would you do?[/b]

The unfortunate reality of modern times is that even kids can and will kill. I grew up hearing my Dad discuss cases in which "kids," aged 12-16, had been involved or actually committed assaults on police officers in the Coke Street apartments. There was even one incident in which a six-year-old was a willing accomplice in a carjacking.

The point lurking here is that I don't believe age is a limiting factor in the use of deadly force. What matters is whether or not you reasonably believe the minor is willing, able and has the current intent of causing you immediate, serious bodily injury or death. If those conditions are met and there is no reasonable alternative, then deadly force can be justified.