TexasCHLforum.com

apostate wrote:Don't instructors still have to renew every two years? So if the initial instructor class was five years ago, wouldn't there be two DPS classes more recently than that?

That said, no argument on the communication breakdown. That's never been one of their strengths.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

wgoforth wrote:Am I understanding some to be saying we are required to keep an actual written test score of the students written test? My understanding was we send in pass/fail and that if we decide to keep their test answer sheet, then we must hold onto it for 3 years; otherwise shred.

Until and unless DPS makes an official change in policy, I'm doing what I was told to do in the Instructor class on multiple occasions. I'm keeping only the CHL-100's as they show that the student passed both the classroom and range portion of the class.

Chas.

Greybeard wrote:Quote: "Think about those who need to organize three years worth of records, if they have not been keeping them."

When the change was made for renewal licenses to be good for 5 years, our instructor renewal class was told we would need to be keeping records for ..... 5 years ....

Keith B wrote:Is it possible when you talked to her on the phone she said they needed to see your 'certification' of proficiency? See below

Texas Administrative Code

TITLE 37 PUBLIC SAFETY AND CORRECTIONS
PART 1 TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
CHAPTER 6 LICENSE TO CARRY HANDGUNS
SUBCHAPTER G CERTIFIED HANDGUN INSTRUCTORS
RULE §6.87 Instructor Record Retention

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(a) Records to be retained and available for inspection. A certified handgun instructor shall make available for inspection to the department any and all records maintained by a certified handgun instructor under the Act. A certified handgun instructor shall retain the following:
(1) a record of each document reflecting the instructor's certification of proficiency as provided in §6.11(d) of this title (relating to Proficiency Requirements);
(2) a record of each license applicant who has applied for instruction, whether accepted or rejected for instruction;
(3) post-test scores;
(4) written critiques or notes made by the instructor;
(5) proficiency demonstrations;
(6) course materials; and
(7) copies of reports submitted to the department.
(b) Records must be retained for a period of three years after completion. Records must be stored in a safe and secure place and must be available for inspection by authorized officers of the department.

Crossfire wrote:Wayne - I am pretty sure no one from DPS is out to get you. Really. They have not had resources to do routine audits in the past. Looks like maybe they do have that in the budget now.

Things have changed and those who have not kept up need to be given a chance to make corrections. Not everyone who teaches is on the forum. Not all the info has been conveyed (or remembered) from the instructor renewal classes. Lets just get everyboday back on the same page, and go from there. I doubt you have anything to worry about as a new instructor. Think about those who need to organize three years worth of records, if they have not been keeping them.

theteacher wrote:

wgoforth wrote:

theteacher wrote:By the way wgoforth, do you still have the caller's phone number? Why don't you run a little search and look up the phone number at http://www.callercenter.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;? It's a consumer complaint site that works like a phone number look-up site, too. The advantage is that, if the phone number has been involved in any phone call fraud, you'd surely find that out.

No, Regulatory Services confirmed the call to be legit.

-- If that is the case, then the agency ought to make the routine calls more "secure" for instructors like you wgoforth so you don't have to worry whenever you get a call like that.

And I agree with you. Why check on your certs and other documents when they probably have that on their records?

theteacher wrote:By the way wgoforth, do you still have the caller's phone number? Why don't you run a little search and look up the phone number at http://www.callercenter.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;? It's a consumer complaint site that works like a phone number look-up site, too. The advantage is that, if the phone number has been involved in any phone call fraud, you'd surely find that out.

theteacher wrote:I've read about scam calls before and if that's the type of call I'd get, I'd think it's a scam. Strangers shouldn't be calling for my information and papers without properly identifying themselves. And even if they do, I wouldn't be very convinced. With all these scams going on, it's hard to tell a legit from a fraudulent call.

If that is indeed a valid call, the authorities involved better find a safer and secure process in checking on instructors.

gringo pistolero wrote:There's bound to be teething pains with any new program. I think the audits are a good thing for the good instructors and something DPS should have been doing all along. They had the authority as long as I remember.

I'm available if they want to hire part time contractors to sit in classes undercover and grade the instructors.

speedsix wrote:...that makes it umanimous...

Keith B wrote:

wgoforth wrote:
I do recall being some flap a while back on black targets, as some group was claiming it was racist.

Well, I guess shooting Martians or guys from the Blue Man Group is OK cause they are not a protected class. LOL

Keith B wrote:

wgoforth wrote:

pottssr wrote:I was called about 4 weeks ago and an inspector form DPS made an appointment to come and audit our class files. She (Donna) was from the Hurst, Texas office (our classroom is in Watauga). She came to the classroom and checked all of our CHL instructor certificates, checked our B-27 targets for color and size (24x45 inches). (Black is not an authorized target color anymore - hasn't made to the instructor level yet). She checked (at random) 3 years of class files. The items that have to be in each class file is the applicantion of each student applying to the class (sign-in sheet), target score sheets, test score sheets, copy of CHL-100s, and class program for that day. She will also want to see any paperwork that you have sent to DPS (asking students leave class because of unsafe range behavior, etc.). She will check your class program to make sur you are teaching the mandated courses (we showed her some of our power point and she was happy with that). We had to sign a form saying that we were audited that day and she said that we would be getting an copy sent back to each of us. She told us that the DPS was starting to inspect all the CHL instructors and that they might start doing it each year.

Haven't heard that black is not accepted.... we were told in Jan class that it is black and blue like a bruise, and red and green like a Christmas tree. Anything documented on this?

The auditor was wrong as of what we were told in the the last class taught. That needs to be corrected in the audits. They are still a B-27 target in one of four colors; black, blue, red or green.

pottssr wrote:I was called about 4 weeks ago and an inspector form DPS made an appointment to come and audit our class files. She (Donna) was from the Hurst, Texas office (our classroom is in Watauga). She came to the classroom and checked all of our CHL instructor certificates, checked our B-27 targets for color and size (24x45 inches). (Black is not an authorized target color anymore - hasn't made to the instructor level yet). She checked (at random) 3 years of class files. The items that have to be in each class file is the applicantion of each student applying to the class (sign-in sheet), target score sheets, test score sheets, copy of CHL-100s, and class program for that day. She will also want to see any paperwork that you have sent to DPS (asking students leave class because of unsafe range behavior, etc.). She will check your class program to make sur you are teaching the mandated courses (we showed her some of our power point and she was happy with that). We had to sign a form saying that we were audited that day and she said that we would be getting an copy sent back to each of us. She told us that the DPS was starting to inspect all the CHL instructors and that they might start doing it each year.

Keith B wrote:

wgoforth wrote:I don't see this as a comparison to a driver's license at all. You took your driving test, you obey laws in driving. Similarly, you took your instructors class and test, you obey laws in teaching.... now someone wants to come and quizz you again. What if someone said they wanted to come and re-quizz you over your driver's license? Keep in mind that besides seeing our certs and forms, Deidra Neely said we will be quizzed on procedural matters. I can understand doing this if there has been a complaint or there is a question about someones CHL-100, but this seems to me to be a waste of resources...theirs and mine.
I will comply, I have no option. But I aint liking this a bit and am calling legislsature to complain about wasting money.

As TexasGal says, this is very common practice with certifications. I have various ones that I have to kep records on and get audited periodically. A good example is as an LTA flight instructor I have to keep trinaing records of students I teach and have them available for the FAA if they request them. And, just having my pilots license requires that I take a flight review every 24 months. I have to just keep regular logs on flights and any aircraft maintenance to show to any FAA inspector if they requyest them. I have actually had them show up out of the blue when they saw me flying and requested to see them when I landed. Luckily I had them with me (not required) so I didn't have to follow up with them later.

So, in my best Old English 'Me thinks thou doth protest too much'.
I wouldn't sweat this at all. As long as you are following the rules and doing what you are supposed to do, you should be good to go!!