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johncanfield wrote:We have a P238 Equinox and after about putting about 600 rounds through it, I absolutely love it but dear wife does not like to shoot it since she has a difficult time getting on target. She has a bit of a tremor and the very short barrel makes it very difficult for her and she gets frustrated. She much prefers the Ruger SR40 and is pretty good with it.

The P238 is so easy to conceal, I carry it almost every possible opportunity. We just bought an M&P 9 compact and I'm hoping she will do well with it and use it for her carry. It's brand new so we're looking forward to some range time with it.

By all means if the M&P works for her, go with it. BUT, if she wants to learn the 238, I think she could do it in time. Start closer to the target. Master close range. Then just a step farther next range trip, then farther the next, etc. Might be stretched over weeks, but if she can hit it at 3 yards, she can hit it at 15 with this technique. Like with all guns though, it is subjective to what feels good to her.

Ruark wrote:That's what I like about my P238: its a classic, 1911-style single-action. I can't stand the LOOOOOOOOOONNG trigger pull of DA or DA/SA semi-autos. Feels like the trigger on a kid's toy cap gun. Just a personal preference, of course, but that's my perspective.

speedsix wrote:...preachers don't get angel's wings...them's chicken feathers...but to be on subject...


...I don't have anything smaller than a 649 Smith...my paws don't do well with tiny(subcompact) guns...my position is that a J or K snub is so easy to carry, why go smaller??? The smallest semiauto I've carried for a primary is a P95...it hides easily...I've been tempted to buy a smaller 9...till I remember how hard it was for me to handle the PPK...I just need more in my fist...I believe that when preceded by "enough"...gun should always be plural...

It's all relative to the individual. The 238 fits my hand better than any gun heretofore. Note, it fits ~my~ hand. Everyone needs what works for THEM! For home defense, I have a much larger P226.

speedsix wrote:...gotta warn you guys...preachers can eat a LOT of fried chicken, and seldom buy lunch!!!

Hey! I resemble that statement!

My stomach is a chicken graveyard!

strider67 wrote:

wgoforth wrote:
If you are in Weatherford, I'm only 1.5 hours away from you. Come down sometime and we can work on that at the range.

I'll definately take you up on that one day. My wife is from Rising Star and we occasionally visit, as she still has family residing there. (Going to RS Homecoming is one of the things I look forward to all year.)

I believe you and your wife do instruction and have thought about contacting you when things warm up a little, as to have her accompany me, as well. Not trying to take advantage of your kindness, however...

By all means, come on down. Feel free to "like" us on Facebook at Castle Keep Services

strider67 wrote:

wgoforth wrote:
Get a snap cap and in the evenings point at a dot on the wall and practice shooting it w/o it coming off the dot...paying attention to how much finger you use on the trigger. Also, you can get a laser for it by Crimson Trace that will help to train you for shooting it.

Will do...thanks for the tips.

If you are in Weatherford, I'm only 1.5 hours away from you. Come down sometime and we can work on that at the range.

strider67 wrote:

MadMonkey wrote:I was actually surprised at how accurate I was with my LCP the first time I took it out. I was able to keep all my shots on a standard-sized torso target at 15 yards... close-in was very good.

Honestly, sometimes I think I shoot smaller guns better than the larger ones. Less barrel flopping around, less weight, easier to hold straight on target... it all comes down to trigger control with them.

Out of curiosity, how do you best control the trigger on your LCP? I recently acquired one, and while improving, I am still pretty inconsistent beyond "close-in".

Get a snap cap and in the evenings point at a dot on the wall and practice shooting it w/o it coming off the dot...paying attention to how much finger you use on the trigger. Also, you can get a laser for it by Crimson Trace that will help to train you for shooting it.

bayouhazard wrote:A gun that's too big for your hands can be as hard to shoot as a gun that's too small.

It's like Goldilocks and the Three Bears.

Love Sigs, but those pretty wooden grips often makes them too wide for me to reach the trigger comfortably,

Ruark wrote:You are correct in noting that X degrees is X degrees, regardless of barrel length. The problem is, as was also noted, that a smaller sighting radius means that LESS barrel movement is needed to move the aiming point X degrees.

At 20 feet, you will shoot approximately 4.2 inches off target for every ONE degree the barrel swings. If the barrel pivots, say, 3 degrees, that's over 12 inches at 20 feet, enough to miss a target completely. And therein lies the crux of the matter: a little 2 inch barrel covers 3 degrees with much LESS muzzle movement than a big full sized 1911. While you'd have to be a pretty sloppy shot to swing a big pistol 3 degrees off target, with a little pocket gun a 3 degree error would be almost imperceptible, and could thus get you killed.

Once again, I'm by no means decrying pocket guns - I carry a P238 .380 - but just stating my opinion that using a pocket gun for CC carries with it a MUCH greater requirement for practice and skill than a larger gun, especially for the inexperienced shooter or first time gun buyer.

Understand that your not going to be "aiming" for the most part at all in a self defense scenerio with these. These are all intended as gut-guns. Pull and shoot. Intended for bad breath range, up close and personal. For such, you don't use sites (no time) I teach "body imaging." Aim your hand at someone with finger extended, like making a gun. You can quickly see there is body hanging over each side of your finger. Pull, point, shoot COM. Thats how you shoot in the close range self defense.

rcasady wrote:one thing i noticed carrying a small (p238) gun that was more menacing than any accuracy problems was drawing . your not gonna hit a thing if you find yourself struggling to get it out or end up holding it with 2 fingers ........practice practice practice with shooting and drawing , i was shocked how bad i sucked when i practiced under more stressful situations (moving / off balance/ one handed )

That's strange... how do you have it holstered? It wouldn't be a good pocket gun, but draws great from a holster. I have it in the bullard body guard, 15 degree forward cant at 5:00. I used to pocket carry the other mouse guns, but the one time I actually needed to pull it for real, I analyzed afterwards and realized how slow it was to draw from pocket. BTW, I also sugget carrying a magazine holster on weak side. He has a 2 mag holster for the 238.

Mine is like this, but for the 238

Some might be surprised by this 10 year study of real life shootings....broken down by caliber. Examine number of rounds before incapacitation, one-shot-stop, percent of hits that were fatal. Now, it doesn't explain all...like ball vs hollow point, but leads me to believe shot placement is as important (if not more so) than caliber. http://buckeyefirearms.net/node/7866" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Zoomie wrote:While small guns have their uses, no one ever came out of a gunfight wishing they had brought a smaller gun, and I'm sure some people didn't come out of a gunfight because the gun they brought was too small.

I don't disagree that no one would say they wish they had a smaller gun, and I agree bigger is better... but consider that no handgun is as big as a long gun either. You can be like Clint Smith who says a handgun is what you use to fight your way back to your rifle you shouldn't have left behind to begin with. If it isn't size wars, it is caliber wars. I could have a mile long gun, but if it wasn't someone else's caliber then it isn't worth shooting. I guarantee you could carry a Glock 23 and many would tell you it isn't gun enough because it isn't a .45. They could tell you your exact quote above too. My point is, it is subjective, it is ALL a compromise based on what works for the individuals daily life and what they can and will shoot. I am as confident that I can hit my target with my 238 as I am with my P226. Someone actually asked me "But if you KNEW you were going to be in a fight, would you bring the 238 to it?" And the answer is "no"...nor would I bring my 226 (though SEALS and Texas Rangers carry it), I would call the cops and stay home. BTW, my 238 is larger than the LCP/TCP/P3AT so I guess I can say I don't have a "smaller gun"? Unless your toting a .50 cal BMG, chances are your carry is smaller than something else.

BTW, I do carry extra mags too.

Zylo_X wrote:wgoforth,

From the man who said "Siginess", Thanks for correcting my sarcasm about the trigger pull.
Thanks also for the info about the mags. The 238 is moving up on my shopping list.

So sorry! Without a smiley, sarcasm doesn't always come across, I thought you were being literal. Didn't know what other word to use but "Siginess"

BTW... find some excuse to send your 238 back to factory if you get one... (ie, jamming, FTF)...I did that and they sent a free magazine as well as polished the feed ramp and moving parts. Smooth as butter when it came back.

Zylo_X wrote:

J.R.@A&M wrote:I would bet that the explanation for large variances in snubby accuracy by experienced pistol shooters has more to do with differences in trigger pull than sight radius issues....

In a nutshell, YES. For me, its about the grip, which makes the 27# DAO triggered pocket gun unusable. For less experienced shooters, without good mechanics, the trigger pull alone could be a problem, regardless of fit. I can barely get 2 fingers on an LCP, but actually did quite well with the rented P238. In concurring with the OP, with regard to new shooters, I think it is important advice to determine the 'best fit', not just 'get the smallest'. I could certainly use an LCP for a BUG, or carry the P238 in the summer time, but for a new shooter, it is likely to be their primary. At least until they get the 'bug' to acquire more.

Only disagree with the 27# comment... the LCP has around a 10 lb. The rest I would agree.

Jumping Frog wrote:

MadMonkey wrote:I'd love to shoot a 238, I'll have to rent one when I'm back from Afghanistan. I bet that single-action trigger is light years ahead of the LCP...

Since the P238 is basically a copy of the Colt Mustang, I'd rather buy a Colt Mustang now that Colt is selling them again.

Colt is more expensive and Sig did their own "Siginess" to it... such as you can rack to either chamber or unchamber a round WITH the safety ON. I consider that a very important safety feature on a SAO. Also, the old Colt have several issues which Sig worked out finally. This Colt is a new design, I don't want to be first in line on a new design of anything.