TexasCHLforum.com

blue wrote:-

OK, so just why is there even a 30.06 law at all ???????????

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Yup, that's me too brother.... When I consider the City, the LEO's, the State Trooper here all agree... that if outed, I would take the ride AND do time. PLUS, since I instruct OTHERS on when they can carry and not, then I bear liability here as well.

We even have a store here that has a generic sign claiming that it is a felony to conceal carry in their store (and not a 30.06, just saying it is a felony). They can say no carrying all they want to, but then to claim it to be a felony??

And being a small town, the LEO's know I carry (since I instruct in the community and it is advertised). All they have to do is to ask if I am carrying when I am in a facility with a generic "no gun" sign and I am up a creek.

gregthehand wrote:It may have been covered but I didn't see it. If you knew the law why did you ask? Why stir the pot if you don't need to? If we know they are wrong then just let them be wrong.

It honestly reminds me of some guys we had in the Army. They would somehow get it in their head that we were having a room/uniform/whatever inspection and start asking around all worried. Multiple would tell them no but they just had to ask the senior NCO standing around. "Well no Pvt Jones I don't think we had one scheduled but that's a good idea."

Just leave it be.

I called as a local LEO informed me that REGARDLESS of 30.06 OR NOT, the sign still says you cannot have guns in local businesses that say otherwise AND the City Offices with such signs are still no carry, pre-emption or no preemption. Thus I called the STATE, not a store so they could put up correct 30.06, and inquired. To my surprise, three different ones at the CHL Division said the officer was correct. I assume you are not in an anti-chl community as I am and having to deal with this mentality regularly.

I also instruct personal and home self defense and basic firearm, so it's not like it doesn't come up.

03Lightningrocks wrote:

Actually, they suggested you seek legal advice for your question.

You are correct, they did...while telling me what a reasonable and prudent person would do.....

RPB wrote:Or, just get a big shirt to cover your pistol and have it screenprinted with :
"I WANT TO BE A TEST CASE AND I MAY BE CARRYING A CONCEALED HANDGUN"
That also would be a way to draw attention to the matter and alert businesses and legislators to change the law so that she becomes correct, or possibly the newspaper articles from anti-gun reporters make the business owners more aware and will all post the proper signage to prohibit concealed carry. As long as I'm not breaking any laws, my motto is ...
"Concealed is concealed" and "Silence is Golden" (Frankie Valli & The 4 Seasons, 1964) Don't ask, Don't tell.
I probably won't be replying to this thread again and bumping it to the top for all the anti-gunners to study.

I understand your point, and concealed is concealed. Mind you, I wasn't dealing with a store or business, I was asking the DPS CHL Division after finding local DPS are saying "No Gun" signs apply to CHL.

Coastie, I believe you would be right in your estimation on this. I guess my disgust with this is to find how little the very office that grants our license "has our back." I had hoped they would offer a clear "nope, the business must have a legit 30.06."

Thanks guys!

Finally received a response from the TX DPS CHL Division in regards to the lady from their office on the phone telling me that if a sign says no guns, it matters not if it is 30.06 or not.
Here is her response:

"You will need to consult with an attorney or local police regarding this issue. One can argue that a reasonable, prudent person can determine that a sign other than a 30.06 means the business does not want handguns in their business and thus this would serve as written notice to the public.

Name Withheld
Customer Service Representative I
Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau "

Original letter from me to them:
Sir, I spoke with a lady at your office today who identified herself as Monica. She was very courteous and respectful and this is not to detract from her in any way. However, she stated to me several times that a business does not have to have a 30.06 sign in order to forbid conceal carry. She said if the sign says "no guns" then you shouldn't carry. I asked if she were sure, as your website specifies they must display a sign. She spoke with a tec and affirmed it was correct.

Either instructors for CHL need to be corrected, because they tell their class that if it's not a 30.06 then it can be ignored. OR, both she and the tec need to be corrected. Since 30.06 is what ALL chl holders look for in going into businesses, this needs to be addressed.

ninemm wrote:

wgoforth wrote: Hey...who is the reporter that played as a pimp and went to the ACORN office? Maybe we can send him to that dept to ask and get it on film!

His name is James O’Keefe. I think he may be busy.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dcnow/2 ... cheme.html

Yes, I was being quite facetious.

Here is a letter I just fired off to the CHL "E-mail us" address:
**********************************************************************
Sir, I spoke with a lady at your office today who identified herself as Monica. She was very courteous and respectful and this is not to detract from her in any way. However, she stated to me several times that a business does not have to have a 30.06 sign in order to forbid conceal carry. She said if the sign says "no guns" then you shouldn't carry. I asked if she were sure, as your website specifies they must display a sign. She spoke with a tec and affirmed it was correct.

Either instructors for CHL need to be corrected, because they tell their class that if it's not a 30.06 then it can be ignored. OR, both she and the tec need to be corrected. Since 30.06 is what ALL chl holders look for in going into businesses, this needs to be addressed.


Note this from your own website:

Regulatory Licensing Service
Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau

PROHIBITING HANDGUNS IN A BUSINESS OR OTHER ENTITY

In order to provide notice that entry on property by a license holder with a concealed handgun is forbidden, Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(A) requires that a written communication contain the following language:

"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."

"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."



Download language

Penal Code Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) further states that a sign must meet the following requirements:

includes the language described by Paragraph (A) in both English and Spanish;
appears in contrasting colors with block letters at least one inch in height; and
is displayed in a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public.
Please note that while the language provided above may be downloaded for convenience, it does not meet the requirements of Section 30.06(c)(3)(B) and may not be used as a sign.



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You can contact the Concealed Handgun Licensing Bureau at :

REGULATORY LICENSING SERVICE MSC 0245
TEXAS DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC SAFETY
PO BOX 4087
AUSTIN TX 78773-0245
Phone: (512) 424-7293 or (512) 424-7294
Helpline: (800) 224-5744

PUCKER wrote:Here's the possible "upside" to this...business owners that WANT to prohibit CHLs call up and talk to this gal at DPS...she tells them ANY sign will work...(do you see where I'm going with this?)...so the business owners just post up a gunbusters sign, no guns sign, etc...and NOT a valid 30.06 sign. Just a thought.

Agreed! That's why I would like to see someone else call in and just ask. Not argue with them, but just ASK them if a 30.06 is needed and just see if this view is prevalent in that office. Hey...who is the reporter that played as a pimp and went to the ACORN office? Maybe we can send him to that dept to ask and get it on film!

almostfree wrote:She may be talking about if you are an employee of the business. It is my understanding that you can be charged with criminal trespass under 30.05 if you are an employee and you carry against company policy that you have been informed of in writing or verbally (usually by company manual). It is kind of a funny situation though, because I read an attorney general opinion that says you can be charged with criminal trespass under 30.05, but then in the statute itself, it is a defense to prosecution under 30.05 that you are a CHL holder. It was a question on the test when I took my CHL class, and the right answer was that you could be charged with criminal trespass if you had been informed by your employer. It is more likely they would just fire you, but it is possible.

Unfortunately she said if there was any place that had a no gun sign, she wouldn't carry in there. After talking with the tec, she came back with "if you receive ANY written, verbal or signage that guns are not permitted, then it's not." After I read to her from my 2007-2008 Handgun Laws, she said "Well there is a new one. Would you like me to send a copy." I saw that was going nowhere, so I just said "sure."

Don't get me wrong, she was very courteous and polite. I am just concerned about having some very uninformed people in that dept. Thing is, she has answered the phone there I know for the past couple of years that I have called!

I just got off the phone with Monica at the TX DPS Concealed Handgun Dept, who informed me that businesses do not have to have the 30.06 sign. That if the sign says no guns, that is sufficient. When I related to her that their own website says that there must be a 30.06, she put me on hold to talk with a tec. When she came back, she again stated that if they have let you know verbally, written, or with any wording of sign that guns are not allowed, the a CHL holder is not permitted to carry.

While I KNOW she is wrong, that concerns me greatly that the phone person and a tec at the dept that handles this would both think this.

Feel free to call them at (512) 424-7293 and see if you get a different response. A simple "Does a business have to display a 30.06 to keep out chl's or does a generic no gun sign suffice" should be sufficient to see what they will say.