TexasCHLforum.com

harrycallahan wrote:Take your finger off the trigger before you get yourself hurt...

But then I stay confused most of the time.

PR/PC at college campuses are rampant, even here in Texas. It has little to do with the officers involved and largely what the college administration perceives and wants.

"It has never happened here before...." attitude in the college administration many times overwhelm common sense. Universities want to sell themselves to parents as a safe place for them to send their children. When the parents show up to tour the campus and the officers look like they are waiting for the next SWAT call out, the parents don't "feel" that little Sally is going to be safe.

I didn't say it made sense, it is just a fact.

This case will be interesting to follow.

TXPPQ,

After all these years nothing offends me. The psychotic individual in the clinical setting is much different than on the the street. The clinician in the clinical setting rarely has to deal with the individual alone. If in a manic state they are either already physically or chemically restrained to a certain extent.

The officer was alone and many times can only retreat so far. The individual was naked, which reduces the ability to restrain someone. Try it some time with someone. Have them get into a bathing suit and spray them down and then try to restrain them, tell them to resist as much as they can. You will be in for a delightful experience.

Why were less lethal force options not employed? I don't know, but I have seen universities prohibit officers from carrying Tasers and pepper spray for PR reasons, so they may not have been available for use.

Once the officer goes hands on with this individual he places his weapon within close proximity of the attacker. In a perfect world the office would always be able to retain his weapon and control the individual, naked or otherwise, but this isn't a perfect world.

Was there a size disparity between the officer and the subject. I have gone into fights with individuals that were stronger and in better shape, luckily tactics worked in my favor. I have seen wiry 120 pound people beat the crap out of officers that weighed 200 pounds and lived at the gym. Every situation is different.

You have the right to form an opinion. If I think your opinion is faulty I may, or may not, make a comment.

Since you have a clinical background with psyc patients would you make a diagnosis and treatment plan for Gilbert Thomas Collar, the subject involved, on what little information was provided in the article? Doubtful, if you are a good clinician, so why come to conclusion on a subject you admittedly have no experience with on such scant information?

I don't know if the officer screwed up or not. I am sure that two to three years from now I will be reading a report on what happened, what was done right, what was done wrong, and what response options could have been taken.

Police work is not science with double and triple blinded studies, it is the ultimate real time, in vivo anthropological study with immediate outcomes.

Ultimately, Gilbert Thomas Collar was the one who controlled his destiny.

I just read that Mr. Collar was a "six-year varsity wrestler," (whatever that means), does that change your opinion any?

Might I inquire just how many manic individuals that are in a psychotic state you have dealt with as a law enforcement officer?

Over the past 30 years I have handled a number of them and only a great deal of luck and the grace of God I have not had to use deadly force. It is a split second decision that can go one way or another. This particular time deadly force was used. It will be reviewed over and over in both civil and criminal settings with all of the hand wringing saying, "He/she could have done xyz." The post shooting investigation will be hundreds of pages, if not thousands of pages, long. The civil depositions will be hundreds of pages in length.

Since they don't provide you with any crime scene photos, shooting diagrams, autopsy reports, witness statements, the shooting officer's statement, just what are you basing your opinion on?

Get some "Force on Force" training where you actually deal with situations like this and see if you would have shot.

I will admit that I don't know if the officer should have used deadly force. I can't make that determination based on a ten paragraph news article. Do some research at http://www.forcescience.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and you may learn you don't know what you don't know.