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Lucky45 wrote:

DaveT wrote: The statement about "no one will ever lay a finger on me" is almost paranoid or delusional. Lots of people in this great country of ours are very affectionate and often touch another during conversations. Folks who consider themselves to be faith based and Christian do it all the time. If a young man working in a store happens to be one of those kind of folks and touches you during a conversation, you would seriously escalate it to the next level ?

Come on now!!!!! That is nonsense. In 2007, as a former Chief of Police, you know fully, that anyone approaching you uninvited and talking nonsense and places a hand on you which is felt (force); that as a officer, is that not considered ASSAULT.???? That is the number one, easiest ways to be arrested in USA, is to just brush on an officer. SO why is it different for a civilian all of a sudden.

Lucky 45,

In order to compare apples to apples, the subject matter needs to remain the same. By adding "talking nonsense" into the equation, you have changed things substantially. Nowhere in the original thought process of this thread was someone approaching you uninvited and talking nonsense mentioned. The original scenario involved a store employee approaching a customer because a store beeper went off. I would not qualify what an employee would say in that kind of a situation as "talking nonsense".

Common sense is the key to everything discussed in this thread. Common sense will tell you that the store employee is just doing their job, common sense should keep the scenario from escalating into an assault.

The 'keyboard warrior' talk is what has changed this thread to change directions.

As far as an Officer's response: Yes, this is 2007, and yes things have changed in our society, and not all for the better. Police Officers do not have a mandate to arrest EVERYONE who talks nonsense, or even touches them while doing it. Police Officers must also rely on common sense. They are entrusted with not only a knowledge of the law, but the DISCRETION of how and when it should be enforced in a multitude of differing situations. If every Police Officer arrested every person for talking nonsense or touching them, our jails would not be able to handle the overload. Using his knowledge of the law, and having the training required under the law, an Officer will also use his own common sense and experience to determine when someone touching them is a perceived threat or not.

Wow.

I am astonished at this thread. I guess 'Rambo' really does exist.... or at at least that mentality.

Be nice, co-operate with the store employee and go back to your loved ones safe and sound. In the grand scheme of life, it might only take a few minutes and it's really no big deal.

The statement about "no one will ever lay a finger on me" is almost paranoid or delusional. Lots of people in this great country of ours are very affectionate and often touch another during conversations. Folks who consider themselves to be faith based and Christian do it all the time. If a young man working in a store happens to be one of those kind of folks and touches you during a conversation, you would seriously escalate it to the next level ?

Just by being smart enough to have a CHL in the first place, I would hope to give someone more credit than that. An attitude that "no one will ever lay a finger on me" ought to be a valid reason for the DPS to suspend your CHL for mental instability.

And while I'm on the subject of CHL...... have you considered that the store employee might also be carrying under his own CHL license ? Then you would have to totally trust in him to know the escalation of force doctrine if you assault him because he was having a conversation with you in the parking lot and just happened to "lay a finger on you".

Like I said at the beginning of this reply..... I am astonished at the tone of this thread. As a former LEO who rose through the ranks to the position of Chief of Police, I've been around the block quite a few times in my life. In every legal sense that I know, and every moral value that I believe in, the attitude of "no one will ever lay a finger on me" is going to get the author in a lot of trouble, given the right circumstances.