TexasCHLforum.com

rp_photo wrote:I only see OC as being viable when the main threat is animal and no strangers are nearby.

Like when the Gov...popped that coyote?

CleverNickname wrote: That would be retarded because if they're in uniform everyone would know that they're still carrying a gun. And guess what, when cops are in plain clothes, they don't open carry.

^^^^^^^^^

This is the exact opposite of what I see locally.

Judge wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

johnferg69 wrote:

johnferg69 wrote:I've been waiting and looking forward to getting a oc passed but there's people on here that would rather shelved it because of wording or personal preference than see our 2nd amendment rights expanded.

If you really mean this statement, then I don't think you understand the scope of the problem. It has nothing to do with "personal preference" other than 461,000+ CHLs would prefer that TPC §30.06 not be amended so they would not be barred from entering business establishments that wanted to ban only open-carry. This is not a minor issue.


So you speak for all CHL holders?

Ummmm, do you have access to some poll the rest of don't, or have you made an assumption?

Who is actually speaking for ALL CHL holders here?

"Keith B" wrote:

OK, now you're nitpicking.
My 'except under certain conditons...etc.' above covers those not mentioned. But you have to agree that 'in general' open carry is illegal in Texas.

I prefer to think I am being thorough and factual.

As to your point, (until recently) ALL carry was unlawful "except for certain conditions". So if we can manage to gain back carry (concealed), then we can manage to gain back (Open) as well.

Remember, this is a RIGHT lost/forfeited back in the 1870's. We need to get it BACK! Everyone should be on board with that. We just need to do it smartly!

johnferg69 wrote:

What is considered practiced heavily? It's my understanding that CHL holders make up a small percentage of the population. Of that percentage even less will open carry.

^^^^^^^^^^Correct! The idea that multitudes of businesses will put up 30.06 signs owing to the "sightings" of OCer's just doesn't add up. OCer's will in fact be pretty rare (in terms of the entire populace). The danger of 30.06 appearing would come from one source (The Media)! Hence, the need to educate the public prior to any serious attempt to get OC in Texas.

I would think most CHL holders would practice some restraint even if some are my fellow Texans.

Hopefully, those who would OC would also recognize the need to be discrete in certain circumstances, that is true with most things in life!

I definitely see where the 30.06 sign will be an issue.

As the bill is currently written, you are correct, I do not like it either. In fact, if anti-gunners would stop and think about it, they should actually be FOR the bill as written.

Think maybe we could call some reps and have em leave the 30.06 sign alone for CC and adopt a new sign for OC?

I think most agree...that CC and OC need to separated (as issues), but I believe Charles is absolutely correct in saying the legislature would never require two signs to be posted by businesses. My proposal would be split the current sign in two (vertically), leaving the same overall size, but stating the requirements for OC and CC respectively.

We do NOT want any kind of a "generic" sign or "small" sign to address OC if it were to pass. The reason is simple: If a small (or generic) sign would suffice for OC, then it will be argued later...that the same should be good enough for CC. We lose ground that way.

Keith B wrote:

flintknapper wrote:

Keith B wrote:

johnferg69 wrote:So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

Me thinks someone does not know their Texas History.

OK, hasn't been legal in any of OUR lifetimes I believe, which is never for us.

Still legal when "traveling" always has been.

Keith B wrote:

johnferg69 wrote:So you believe its a useless law?

I feel right to bare arms it is a constitutional right, but the open carry bill as written is not only useless, but a dangerous one. I feel it will lead to us losing places we enjoy concealed carry in today as I am sure there will be additional 30.06 signs posted. How many? Not sure, but any is too many.

Now, as for open carry as a whole, the problem we have in Texas is it has NEVER been legal, except under certain conditions (in home, your own property, target shooting, etc.) So, while it is not practiced heavily in other states where allowed, there would be those who would purposely open carry in Texas to exercise there newly regained right. And, they would end up carrying where it will raise alarm by some. In other states that never restricted it, it is not the 'new toy' available to play with, so you just don't see it regularly. I think this is partially due to many open carry in rural areas or remote country areas, so they aren't exposed to as many eyes.

So, IF it passed for licensed open carry, even with changes that would leave the 30.06 alone and apply that any no-guns sign was valid, then it might be better. We would still see those that go the extra mile to prohibit concealed carry also due to the media exposure and hype and the visual sightings of open carriers, but I believe it would be far less 30.06 additions to restrict concealed carry.

Me thinks someone does not know their Texas History.

Mike1951 wrote:

Were you here and involved with concealed carry in 1995-1997?

This question was not addressed to me...but I can answer it. Yes, I was here...had my CHL in '96.

Signs DID go up everywhere! The epidemic of businesses posting no-gun signs is what created the need for 30.06 and its huge, ugly sign.

NO, signs did not go up "everywhere", it very much depended upon where you lived. It was not a problem many places. Large cities and urban areas did experience the problem. Businesses were displaying small signs of different kinds.

One of the purposes of the 30.06 sign...was to have ONE sign that everyone could recognize. It is not by accident that the sign is large (conspicuous). Some businesses do not post it for this reason alone.

Even so, signs came down fairly quickly....right? It is actually fairly rare to see a 30.06 sign when you consider all the places of business out there.

Those of us who remember don't want to see it again.

And I don't think you would. Remember....CC (and the sign) have been around for about 15 yrs. CHL'ers have a good track record and we should be MORE public about that not less!

Take an honest look at society, there is very little that the populace is unwilling to accept. Yes, some things are "shocking" at first, then quickly ignored when it is proven there is nothing to make a stink about.

OC can be done in Texas, but there needs to be some preparatory work done first.

Salty1 wrote:"All States except Texas, Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, New York, Oklahoma and South Carolina, (Washington, D.C. not a State) have some form of open-carry."


Thanks for making my point, I surely hope that nobody believes this as fact and open carry is even remotly permissable in any state that does not specifically allow it. Before locating to Texas I lived in Mass and even had a handgun permit, very, very tough to get in a ultra liberal may issue state. I can tell you that if you open carry in that state you will have a major problem and WILL end up arrested and convicted. It is not being truthful when people claim that open carry is permissible in 43 states and use that against states such as Texas. Propaganda comes in all shapes and forms, people tend to use it to promote their causes; this 43 state opinion is exactly that, propaganda without any merit that could have a disasterous result for those who take that as gospel.

Well Sir it IS "fact", lawful fact. In a previous post you asked:

I would like to know who these 43 other states that are referenced are,

To wit....I answered your question. You seem only interested in pointing out that in some areas...OC will get you unwanted attention. That does not mean it is NOT lawful or doesn't exist!

At one time...the chief of police in Harris County, Texas.... encouraged his officers to arrest or harass folks with CHL's when they were stopped. Would you deny that CHL's have been legal in Texas since roughly 1996 because of this?

There is plenty to discuss concerning OC, but when you ask for specific information, at least be willing to accept it when it is offered. As I said before, 43 States offer OC (in some form), whether or not it is widely accepted or practiced.

Salty1 wrote:Biting my tounge........ good thing my PC has a delete key......... I would like to know who these 43 other states that are referenced are, I would also like to see the results of somebody testing the 43 theory and see how many times they were arrested...

All States except Texas, Arkansas, Florida, Illinois, New York, Oklahoma and South Carolina, (Washington, D.C. not a State) have some form of open-carry.

TexasGal wrote:It is sad that we are becoming divided over this, but I do see a lot more hostility from some on the OC side. If they would just have a bit more patience with the slow grind of change. Put yourself in the place of a business owner. For now, he can have people who are pro carry and people who are anti come in to do business with him without incident. With open carry, he has to consider the reaction of his customers who don't want to be around visible guns. He has to consider the possible arguments and complaints.

This is a concern....I do not discount it, but consider it largely an issue of education.

I agree a gun buster sign could be used to show open carry is not wanted and the 30.06 could be used to forbid both.

I think a small, generic "gun busters" sign would be a grave mistake. If ANY small sign were sufficient to warn the "carrier" (concealed or open)...then it could later be argued that the LARGE 30.06 sign should be reduced in size...or eliminated. It would make good argument.

I agree with Charles...that two large signs will never pass the legislature...and IMO it should not, it would indeed constitute an unreasonable burden upon businesses. IF a two sign option is "the answer" then the current sign could be divided into two equal parts (vertically), the lettering reduced in size and still accomplish everything needed.

They still get to be armed, the antis still get their peace of mind. Win Win. But the all or nothing angry attitude of "I'll wear my gun anyplace I please whatever anyone feels" serves no one and least of all the OC supporters who are more reasonable.

Certainly...exercising discretion is best as concerns nearly everything, but we get nowhere when we fail to responsibly exercise our rights. At one time in this country, blacks were segregated from the white populace, Gays were forced to "stay in the closet" or risk persecution. Both factions fought vigorously for equality (and won). It took courage, time, perseverance and sacrifice.

Are gun owners really such Social Pariah's that we can't overcome the unfounded fears of a certain segment of the public? IF so...then I submit we have already lost our battle and might as well walk meekly to the back of the bus.

Now...I am the first to agree...there is a time, place and method to do things. But Open Carry (the issue/notion) has already arrived and will need to be addressed. IF the NRA/TSRA/Other's do not like what they have seen thus far, then they had better get started addressing the issue as they would have it done.

I am hoping to see some success this session with respect to Campus Carry and the Parking Lot bill. If these fail however, I am seriously going to have to evaluate just how much political clout the NRA/TSRA and our legislators really have. If we can't manage to accomplish even one of these heralded "baby steps", then we're crawling (not walking) anyway and need to take a serious look as to why.

So there's my rant for today.


Flint.