TexasCHLforum.com

quidni wrote:

nitrogen wrote:Remember not everyone can use OC. IF you have Asthma, OC or other chemical agents can be counter-indicated. It can cause respratory arrest.
If you've ever had a severe asthma attack, and had to go to the hospital to be intubated; you'd be more scared of using a chemical agent than about anything else. That's why i'd be looking to my pistol, but that's just me.

flintknapper wrote: But, from what you have posted, I am hearing you say that you are willing to use deadly force in place of non-lethal force so that you can avoid a possible asthma attack. I don't think that is going to work in your favor in court.

It could, if I were on the jury, & the person had a doctor's testimony verifying the asthma/allergic sensitivity. My husband grew up with asthma, & sometimes had to be taken to the emergency room during a severe attack. My son also had to deal with asthma as a teenager. I've got some serious allergies of my own (some perfumes will literally knock me out). Folks who've never experienced respiratory arrest or anaphylaxis personally, or even vicariously through a loved one, can sometimes have a hard time understanding how serious a reaction can be, or can become, if not treated promptly. But you can't effectively defend yourself or run away if you can't breathe and are within seconds of passing out.

Medicine has come a long way in a few years, yes, but asthma can still kill someone.

[/rant]
Sorry, pet peeve of mine.

Thank you, for that information.

I'm not disputing how serious an asthma attack can be.

One could be triggered by nothing more than the fear/excitement of the situation posted. For those who suffer from severe asthma or are aware of conditions that cause an attack, by all means.. avoid that condition (trigger).

I still maintain that if you go to court on the strength of an argument like: "I used my pistol because I can't carry Pepper Spray", that it will not bode well for you unless the totality of the situation justified the use of deadly force. But, as you say, a jury might decide otherwise.

In the case cited, it is my opinion that deadly force would not have been justified, and I worry that some people are carrying as the "sole" means of defending themselves. Whats the old saying? "When your only tool is a hammer, then the whole world begins to look like a nail"!

I am glad that the subject of asthma was brought up however, because it makes us give thought to what actions an asthmatic might take if attacked.

Everyone has physical limitations of one sort or another, so being aware of how this could effect your ability to defend yourself seems like a good thing to know.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Flint.

RioShooter wrote:Why didn't you call the cops with your cell phone when this guy started to follow you? You do carry a cell phone don't you?

Always a good idea.

In this case, the response time (for police to arrive) would mean that he would end up having to "deal with it" anyway. Thats really the whole reason any of us carry anyhow. Naturally, if you do call the police (or 911) you'll want to give a very good description of yourself and the circumstance. Kinda bad for the police to roll up on a "man with a gun" call.. and not know that you're the good guy.

I'm sure this situation was scary for all involved. Thankfully, it ended without anyone being injured. I feel certain there were some lessons learned. Sounds like the girl is pretty sharp already. Good girl!!!

nitrogen wrote:

flintknapper wrote: You've already answered your own question. Get some OC so you can stop looking to your pistol as the answer to every threat (perceived).

Remember not everyone can use OC. IF you have Asthma, OC or other chemical agents can be counter-indicated. It can cause respratory arrest.
If you've ever had a severe asthma attack, and had to go to the hospital to be intubated; you'd be more scared of using a chemical agent than about anything else. That's why i'd be looking to my pistol, but that's just me.

Clearly, "cross contamination" can present a problem when using OC (asthma or not). But, from what you have posted, I am hearing you say that you are willing to use deadly force in place of non-lethal force so that you can avoid a possible asthma attack. I don't think that is going to work in your favor in court.

The whole point is this: If you are justified in using deadly force in this situation (and I don't believe you would be) then drawing your pistol should not be a problem. Otherwise, you need to be able to defend yourself in some other manner I.E. (running away, OC, empty hands skills, verbal commands, etc).

Whatever you would have done if we take the "Pistol" out the equation.. is what you should have done in this scenario (IMO). In this case, since both parties were able bodied, then running away (as they did) makes good sense.

Increasingly, I see posts here that lead to me to believe that some CHL's view their weapon as the answer to just about any threat. If you have any other option available... use it first!

And Gig, your buddy needs to much more aware of whats going on around him at 2:00 in the morning especially if he's on foot. Thats kind of late to able to get a sandwich on campus isn't it?

Just don't let your pistol "empower" you the wrong way is all I'm saying. I know there are times when it needs to be the "first" thing to come out...but with most altercations.. this is not the case.

Glad no one was hurt.

gigag04 wrote:

flintknapper wrote: You've already answered your own question.

My question was what you (meaning the forum audience do in the same situation if armed. I cannot speak for the forum...thus...it is impossible for me to answer my own question as it was originally asked. I offered my own take on what I would do, but I already knew that...I merely offered it as a conversation started.

-nick

Okie Dokie.

Let me try it this way: Quote "This may be a great time of OC (I should get some)." "Critiques?"

Get ya some, because unless you're an auctioneer... the guy running up to you is going to be on you before you complete "STOP GET ON THE GROUND NOW". Unless he has verbally threatened you, shown a weapon, or there is clear disparity of force, then deadly force is not appropriate IMO.

Thats my take on it, but your mileage may vary.

Interesting scenario.

gigag04 wrote:Figure I'll take first stab at it.

Once the suspect starts running towards us, my girlfriend (imaginary) would run to the house and call the cops. I would turn, put my hand on my kimber, but with my shirt covering it (it is usually at like 4 o clock behind me and thus hidden) and yell "STOP - I am feeling threatened by you, I am armed and willing to defend myself"

(my reasoning here is that regardless of what you say, words are merely words, and actions are what matter in court).

If remains running towards me, now at 20 ft or so, I would draw down, click safety off (finger off triger duh...) and yell "STOP GET ON THE GROUND NOW" at this point I'm fearing a knife or gun attack or worse.

If the assault continues, I would strongly considering stopping it with deadly force but I'm not totally sold on the legal ramifications. This may be a great time of OC (I should get some).

Maybe I'm jumping the gun so to speak but this is probably what my first reaction would be.

Critiques?

You've already answered your own question. Get some OC so you can stop looking to your pistol as the answer to every threat (perceived).